01-05-2002 13:29									#31
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet In WC2 the humans and orcs were essentially identical (except the orcs were better because of the ogre's bloodlust spell)

Interesting. I always felt the humans to be stronger because of the paladins healing spell (Not to mention the mages polymorph - Baaah! ).To me there was nothing worse than seeing my orky units (other than my regenerating troll beserkers) slowly losing more and more life until death did them part.
This of course was far more important on some of the resource-poor maps but I still hated to lose units like that.

	01-05-2002 13:38									#32
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true ... the humans do have that going for them on the resource-poor maps, but I usually found that because Bloodlust is a cast-and-forget kind of spell, since it has a pretty long duration, whereas Heal requires much more micro-management, the Orcs are better off.
If Heal was an auto-cast spell or had a regenerative function instead of being a one time top-up (some of the spells are auto-cast in WC3, dunno if Heal is one of them, that's one of the things Blizz has been playing around with) then Paladins would be almost unbeatable.
Polymorph is a great spell, true, but also suffers from the need for micro-management IMHO. Maybe these are just the shortcomings in my play-style being reflected here, though.

It greatly depends on the skill of the player also, of course, any human player should have a huge advantage over the AI anyway, regardless of the relative strength of the two factions.

	02-05-2002 01:04									#33
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Heal costed too much mana, and was really only effective for patching up after battles.

Bloodlust only cost 20% mana and TRIPLED DAMAGE. I don't think I need to say more as far as Orcish superiority.

	02-05-2002 04:20									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Triped Heal costed too much mana, and was really only effective for patching up after battles. Bloodlust only cost 20% mana and TRIPLED DAMAGE. I don't think I need to say more as far as Orcish superiority.

SPOILER ALERT!!!







If the orcs were so superior, then why did they get beaten by the humans in the end?

	02-05-2002 04:24									#35
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal If the orcs were so superior, then why did they get beaten by the humans in the end?

'cause it was in the script?

	02-05-2002 05:11									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld 'cause it was in the script?

Maybe also, because the AI are crap at using the orcs.

	02-05-2002 17:25									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns The amazing thing is they managed to make 3 races that had distinct, balanced abilities and playstyles. You played a different game depending on what race you chose.

I am not so sure about them being balanced.

	02-05-2002 17:43									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I am not so sure about them being balanced.

They're only imbalanced when you have one player using a race they are competent with against another who isn't quite at par with using theirs. Each race does have advantages/disadvantages over each other.

Though there is some small degree of evolution here in game concepts, Starcraft is still Warcraft in space though.

	02-05-2002 18:36									#39
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yeah , LA . that and the fact there is no NAVY in starcraft.

	02-05-2002 18:36									#40
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So, MoO is just civ in space.

AoW is just civ in fantasy land.

Warcaft is just Dune2 in fantasy land.

Bleh, jealous.

	02-05-2002 18:45									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone So, MoO is just civ in space. AoW is just civ in fantasy land. Warcaft is just Dune2 in fantasy land. Bleh, jealous.

The comparisons you have there hardly compare at all. I say Starcraft is Warcraft in Space because it is nearly exactly like Warcraft with a few improvements. Starcraft resembles Warcraft much more than MoO or AoW resembles Civ, or Warcraft resembling Dune 2.

BTW, what have we got to be jealous about?

	02-05-2002 19:41									#42
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That you can't come up with anything better. That you didn't make gazillions of dollars off the idea. That you aren't very good at it.

Everyone that says Starcraft is just Warcraft in space obviously has not played a Use Map Settings game. Until you have, and until you know what I'm talking about you'll just be a poor sap. Blizzard put some of the best triggers into the map editor.

	03-05-2002 01:05									#43
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Starcraft may look similar to Warcraft at first glance, but if you ever actually get decent and really understand the gameplay, you'll realize it's wildly different. The fact that you even think this shows that you're probably doing something wrong.

Edit: Mac, you're not one of those pubbies who plays Lurker Defense all day are you?

	03-05-2002 02:44									#44
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Naaaah, I had to check it out though.
The Middle Earth games were usually fun. I also like tsome of the Elemental and other RPGs. Then, just for fun I'd whip out Taco Bell Madness.

	03-05-2002 06:29									#45
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone That you can't come up with anything better. That you didn't make gazillions of dollars off the idea. That you aren't very good at it.

Not very good at what? Starcraft? Never planned to. I only grinded through the campaigns becasue I felt like I should be getting something for my money, not because the game was interesting. It wasn't.

Tell me why I should be getting good at a game that's uninteresting.

quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Everyone that says Starcraft is just Warcraft in space obviously has not played a Use Map Settings game. Until you have, and until you know what I'm talking about you'll just be a poor sap. Blizzard put some of the best triggers into the map editor.

Really couldn't care less. If I need to tweak with settings of the game to enjoy it, something is gravely wrong with the game.

	03-05-2002 08:09									#46
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You don't have to. Just play a map like Taco Bell Madness and you'll see.

The Chronotrigger RPG is pretty good.

It's not so much about tweaking it to make it fun, as it is about playing different types of fun games using that game. I guess if you haven't even tried yet you won't understand.

	03-05-2002 08:19									#47
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone You don't have to. Just play a map like Taco Bell Madness and you'll see. The Chronotrigger RPG is pretty good. It's not so much about tweaking it to make it fun, as it is about playing different types of fun games using that game. I guess if you haven't even tried yet you won't understand.

All those "madness", "Matrix Defence", etc. maps and the like are immensely boring to tell the truth. I understand them. I've played them. And I can't say that they enhance Starcraft at all in my opinion.

	03-05-2002 13:07									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Not very good at what? Starcraft? Never planned to. I only grinded through the campaigns becasue I felt like I should be getting something for my money, not because the game was interesting. It wasn't.

You should give multi-player a shot. I'd recommend avoiding all those damn pubbies and their UMS games , and finding a good competitive community to hang around, like NoHunters or the remnants of X-17. You'd be surprised how fun it is, and how, 300 games later, you're still discovering strategies and new ways to play the game.

	03-05-2002 13:41									#49
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I have seen some friends playing MP. I still have no idea what the attraction is. I am not stopping you to like the game, I am just saying I don't

	03-05-2002 14:00									#50
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Don't worry, nothing will ever stop me from enjoying Starcraft

Just so long as everyone has their favorite game it's all good

	03-05-2002 15:51									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Triped Don't worry, nothing will ever stop me from enjoying Starcraft Just so long as everyone has their favorite game it's all good

Couldn't agree more with your second point. Though Starcraft isn't my favourite game, I don't really want to stop anyone from enjoying it.

Though I made plenty of points against Starcraft's name, don't feel like I'm forcing them on anyone. They're just my reasons why I don't like it as much as many other games I play.

	06-05-2002 20:30									#52
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Well, I thought this was the best place to post this tidbit of information. Blizzard just released on their website, www.blizzard.com, a video card test for their upcoming game WarCraft III. This test comes almost two months before the game is expected in stores. What other company would do such a thing? For those calling Blizzard dummies, all I got to say is that they know what they are doing.

	06-05-2002 23:45									#53
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Blizzard hasn't released a good game since WarCraft II. Total Annihilation and Warlords Battlecry II deserve a sequel much more than StarCrap does.

	07-05-2002 01:36									#54
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*bullshit alarm*

Total Annihilation is crap. Too many ultimate weapons and 150+ units totally took all the strategic depth out of that game.

And Warcraft II had issues.

	07-05-2002 05:21									#55
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Total Annihilation is crap. Too many ultimate weapons and 150+ units totally took all the strategic depth out of that game.

Unlike StarCrap, TA had a kick-ass storyline.

StarCrap:
"Mind control, blah blah, giant insects, blah blah, genetic engineering, blah blah, losers with Southern SubCanadian accents, blah blah." I got bored by mission five every time I tried it, so I might have missed a few things."

TA:
"Core has massive robots. Arm has nimble robots. Crush one of them with the other."

	07-05-2002 06:00									#56
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I say don't complain.
If Starcraft is a great game, play it.
It must be hard for them to top it with the next game (Warcraft 3), so let them
take as long as they like. If they rush, they will just release something bigger and prettier, but worse than their awesome older games.

This sort of impatience is what needs to be resisted if we are to see great games.

	07-05-2002 06:09									#57
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo StarCrap: "Mind control, blah blah, giant insects, blah blah, genetic engineering, blah blah, losers with Southern SubCanadian accents, blah blah." I got bored by mission five every time I tried it, so I might have missed a few things."

Mind Control really makes it boring. Just mind control an SVC and you get all human stuff. Mind control a drone, and you get all zerg stuff.

The giant insects part of the plot is obviously a blatant copy of Starship Troopers, with a few subtle differences.

And when they made Brood War's plot, they were obviously making it all up as they went along. They didn't put much thought into it at all.


The game itself is not completely crap though, just way overrated.

	07-05-2002 08:07									#58
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal The giant insects part of the plot is obviously a blatant copy of Starship Troopers, with a few subtle differences.

The Zergs seem more like the aliens in Alien to me.

	07-05-2002 10:13									#59
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Total Annihilation is crap. Too many ultimate weapons and 150+ units totally took all the strategic depth out of that game. Unlike StarCrap, TA had a kick-ass storyline. StarCrap: "Mind control, blah blah, giant insects, blah blah, genetic engineering, blah blah, losers with Southern SubCanadian accents, blah blah." I got bored by mission five every time I tried it, so I might have missed a few things." TA: "Core has massive robots. Arm has nimble robots. Crush one of them with the other."

Different strokes I guess. I rather enjoyed both - Starcraft because I thought it did have a good storyline as well as the 3 very different races, and TA because in spite of its weak storyline ... 150 units! Another hundred-odd in the CC pack!
And custom units on top of all of that. Pretty unique in the rts world.

Soooo, St Leo ... how did you stop the Krogoth?

	07-05-2002 10:51									#60
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Aaaaaaaaah, the main thing I had with Starcraft was the lack of random map generator.....oh..lets go play Hunters map for the 100th time...booooooooring....and some people know the damn maps soo good they know where to go and expand and attack....a major turn off.
Another thing I didn't liked about it was its community, like they never played another RTS before...Blizzard roolz!! I have never met more close-minded people in my life...even the talibans are nothing compared to this.lol
Hell, even fan sites have those "newbie" forum sections...for what....to learn how to click with mouse....

Starcraft was okay for its time, but the damn community made me never wanna play it again.