27-04-2001 09:31									#31
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As far as I've read rather quickly through this thread I get it that there's talk of 2 kinds of atrocities:
1 martial, those who are part of wartime; and
2 social, you could say thse who are part of peacetime

The definition of atrocities is something which has evolved over time. As far as I've read I've only read about the moderntime atrocities like ethnic cleansing and atom bombs.
Things which were taken for granted in the past or even nowadays in large parts of the world, are considered to be atrocities nowadays.Enslaving your POW's was a common thing in the antique world, sacrificing them to the gods was accepted in some older cultures. Nowadays you would have to build a POW-camp (=stalag in german, the last part of word comes from "lager" (in dutch = leger) which means "camp" in anglo, I can't remember right now what "sta-" stands for).

The definition of martial atrocities has been the subject of Law of war over the last 400 years. The first international publication on this subject was written by a dutchman, Hugo de Groot (the Great, a rather common name in NL) or Hugo Grotius, somewhere around 1620 (he was also the first to publish internationally on "naval law". The term Law of War derives from his publication which actually was a very technical juridical work. But before this work (first published in latin, nowerdays that would have been anglo), which somehow is a sign of its time, you had the chivalrycode, the code of the Bushido in Japan, and even Sun Tzu, who we all know, has put forward his idea's on what do and not to do during wartime. Every time has had it's own martial code.

So coming down to the game.
I think it is very well possible to add an "extension" to the diplomacy- and battlemodel with parameters for the effects of atrocities on international relations and battlestrenght of troops. Same goes for the happinessmodel.
The settings of these parameters should change over time with the development of new advances/idea's in your CIV. And this ongoing proces should start in the beginning of the game. And it might end up with the building of an international highcourt for warcrimes (which is about a 30 minutes walk from my work in Den Haag (the Hague)).

	27-04-2001 06:06									#33
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Well having no possibility to commit atrocities is no fun.

i agree, that after some stage it should be difficult, but hey it could be done and could even be blamed on someone else!

No one bugs china or turkey or india! No one really did anything to pakistan or usa! No one remembers britains rule of terror!

[rant]
If we will be realistic and ahve predetermined history, I think germans mongols iraqis and chinese should all be laid sanctions upon in some stage[/rant]

But most other nations get away....

So yes this is nice, but one shouldn't over do it. Currently in this unrealistic fashion the AI hates you no matter what you do after a while, and always remmeberes the settler you killed 3000 years ago! Come on, USA and England were fighting but now are best of friends!