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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
It is interesting that there is a hetero-homo double standard, namely that antigay people think it's perfectly fine to judge every homosexual by the acts of a few, whether those acts even relate to homosexuality or not. But the reverse logic doesn't seem to apply, as the overwhelming majority of horrible deeds on this earth have been committed by heterosexuals. It's just a matter of numerical superiority.
I believe it is another, subtle way in which antigay people try to debase and dehumanize homosexuals. When you lump them into groups and make mass-generalizations that "they" are all "this" and do "that," it makes it easier to see gays as a monolithic "evil" rather than as what gays are--individual human beings who are just as prone to virtue and vice as anyone else.
There is no "gay culture," but there are gays in every culture. |
thanks 
This garbage also reminds me of one other historical ideology that existed in the early 1900's.
During the lynch era, many whites felt that all blacks were inclined towards criminal behavior, and believed that the only difference between blacks, are the ones who are caught for their crimes, and blacks who have not been caught.
Thus, they justified using lynching as a means to "control" blacks, by attributing criminal behavior to an entire minority group of people.
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Jon Miller
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poison flower is back!!
Jon Miller
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Guynemer
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I'm sorry... could you quote me where I claimed that male rape is as equally reported as female rape? And, while you're at it, stop talking out of your ass? Much appreciated.
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blackice
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Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:19
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quote:
The issue is antigay groups using dubious, misinterpreted and downright false statistics to imply that all gays are inherent child molesters, thus justifying their hatred of homosexuals and continued denial of equal rights for gays and lesbians. |
You seem to know what you are talking about do you have any links for your information?
quote:
That is what you seem to believe with homosexuals, |
MrFun
First I never implied I believe it you have. Second the black issue is a whole different ball of wax somewhat like comparing apples and oranges here. The issue with me in this matter be it gays or straight people is abuse to young males. I think both these sites and many more point to the facts that the real numbers are not known. This means to me anyway that a true picture of the problem needs to be addressed.
Now these controversial articles (both of them) point to an area to be addressed. If someone could point me in the right direction with statistics or facts to make clear these articles are BS please do so. So far all I see is opinions and bashing. I am genuinely interested in this subject be it gay based information or not. But please do not say: “You believe” ask, I am sure of what I believe and what you have said it is not…
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you will find it is prevalent among heterosexuals as well. |
That is a given but statistics do matter very much so.
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You can never rightly apply criminal behavior to an entire minority group. |
Nope you can not I do not, never have and speak out about it often.
Guynemer quote:
honestly, is male rape as ignored as he suggests? I certainly don't think so I'm sorry... |
Blackice quote:
back up your claim that male rape is reported on an equal basis to that of female rape...good luck. |
Guynemer quote:
could you quote me where I claimed that male rape is as equally reported as female rape? |
Speaking of an arse ok your simple I will help…You claim male rape is not ignored as much as these articles and others claim (reported young male rape to be exact). Show me where you got this information I would like to see it. Good luck and thank you…
quote:
Sexual abuse of male children and adolescents is common, under-reported, under-recognized and under-treated, according to an article in the December 2 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). |
http://www.ama-assn.org/sci-pubs/sc...02.htm#jrv80046
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"Statistics" such as those are not reliable. |
poison_flower could you point me to the site, information to confirm what you say? Some of the information sources used are very credible sources. North American Man and Boy Love Association reference is dead on the mark they are self described gay pedophiles and what the article quotes is fact…
The Emperor Fabulous so would I, do you have a link?
I don’t know Boris but I am asking the same thing with hopes someone has those answers…
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I am consistently opposed to legalization of pedophilia. |
We all are and to eliminate it we need to understand it all the facts including the statistics.
Last edited by blackice on 02-05-2002 at 09:15
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Not even one-third. As I stated above, the vast majority of child abuse even against boys by men is committed by heterosexual men.
Seems weird, until one realizes: paedophilia isn't about sex as much as it is about power and control.
I strongly suspect the percentage of child abusers who are gay is the same percentage of the population at large who are gay--from 4-7 percent. |
I agreed with most of your post above this one, but I think you are wandering beyond your knowledge a bit here, or at least across the limitations of our terminology. The term homosexual is regularly misused, to the extent that it should really be discarded for terms which are not defined in different ways by different people. Obviously to some people, including those behind this particular article anyone who engages in a sex act with someone of the same sex is a 'homosexual'. It's like a crime, like a murderer is a murderer forever. Thus they can pull crap like taking this definition of homosexuality, applying it to sex crimes, and then use a more moderate definition of homosexual (like the estimate that 5% of the population is gay) and come up with an outlandish number with which to paint homosexuals as the spawn of Satan. All that is really happening of course is that the cultural disconnect between these opposing groups is magnifying whatever data are being employed in the direction desired by the interest group.
Of course the same thing happens to some extent when 'the other side' uses statistics. Homosexuals benefit from being perceived to be numerous (politically especially), and are not always upset to be over-represented in population estimates. To some of them it seems as though everyone is either gay, or in denial. There are a wide variety of wild claims on both sides, and the casualty is the truth on the one hand, and an inability to define our terms in order to actually have a conversation about this issue as a society. Neither group is serving society well because they are both claiming the middle when neither really has a firm foothold there.
Anyway, when you say a majority of child abuse is commited by heterosexual men, these men by varying definitions can be considered either heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual all depending on the definition one uses of these terms.
The term pedophilia can mean different things. To me it's a mental disorder. To someone else it's the crime of engaging in sexual activity with a child. So when you state that pedophilia is about power I object if you are talking about the mental disorder. People who suffer from this disorder are not mostly married, and cannot form successful sexual relationships with adults because they are arrested in their own development to the extent that only children stimulate them sexually. This is a fairly rare disorder, but it's very hard to treat successfully. These people should probably be locked up very tightly and closely supervised if they are released.
Most cases of child sexual abuse do not fit that psychological pattern (true pedophile) however. Most are as you say about power, and a better term for the people who commit this crime is child molester rather than pedophile. So perhaps I am in complete agreement with your points, but with the state of the terminology, I can't tell for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I strongly suspect the percentage of child abusers who are gay is the same percentage of the population at large who are gay--from 4-7 percent. |
Since we are speculating here, I will just say that I have every reason to believe the opposite. To the limited extent that we have good data on straights and gays it is the exception rather than the rule that these data show gays and straights to be statistically identical. I would further state that being victimized sexually as a child is a prime risk factor for becoming an abuser, and it is my sincere belief that more homosexuals (and by this term here I mean people who identify themselves as Gays or Lesbians in whatever polls might be used to extract this information) have been sexually abused as children. Because in my experience many of these sexually abused homosexuals are women (and thus unlikely to abuse children sexually), I can't say for sure whether a truer accounting than that supplied in the article would attribute more or less child abuse to self-proclaimed homosexuals. My feeling though is that it is far more likely to be either more, or less than it is to be equivalent.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Sikander
This implication only holds true if you assume that people who molest boys and girls do so in equivalent numbers. |
I agree and that's why I used the terms "implies" and "suggests."
There is a great irony in this thread. Blackice started the thread as part of his fanatical attempts to promote his belief that men are victims, men are oppressed.
The irony is that in order to promote his belief, he demonizes homosexuals and ends up victimising men who like men.
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01-05-2002 00:16
I thought that in most under-developed societies, families tend to be large because so many babies die soon after they are born.
Seems you have proven you have nothing to say at all and jump to huge conclusions based on mass hysteria?
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