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Lan_Rover
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Edmonton , Alberta,Canada mountain standard time.
Jan 2000
time: 22:12
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I do not reply to forums often- being reserved and all that . But fireaxis seems to be creating a game that I simply will not buy. I do not want civ specific units and will not buy the game if it uses this idea.
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:12
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Mailed to askthecivteam@firaxis.com
Hi!
For the years i've played civilization and civilization 2,
and persisted on playing it, I always knew that my victory
is actually mine. I earned it. I knew that my civilization
was as unique and specific as I made it be with techs, wonders,
governments and policies. We already have so much to create
out own civ.
Having unique civs, which have unique units, bonuses etc, is
wrong. You should not have it as this only downgrades your game.
The game is good because it is accurate and yet very costumizable.
It is very popular now in the strategy genere to create unique units.
Guess why? Because other games don't have the needed depth
or possibility to make factions truely special and make each player
relate to his faction. So standart factions are generated, fitted for
certain styles of play and used over and over by the same hundreds
of zealot like bored players after which the game is forgotton.
This is not the case with civ. This should not be the case with civ2.
Firaxis, frankly, could you possibly compare the success of Civ 2
to Alpha Centaury? I think not. And I tihnk you know why. Because
civ 2 is it, for every player out there. And every player knows he should
work hard and have his victory in many different ways over many different
timespans. In Alpha Centaury, the game is it only for 7 zealoted player
types. All the non-fanatic ones have let go.
I can't say what I know now about Civ 3 satisfies the very high
expectations I had. But I know I trust you to make the best game you can.
Having unique, premolded factions is a step back for civ which will
make the true civers step away and leave.
So who do you choose? A horde of silly gameplayers which will buy your
game, play it for a month and then dump it, or a horde of core civers
who understand you and your games, and are willing to give everything
for it?
The choise is yours! Every one of the Firaxians incharged of Civ 3!
Does unique civs make the game _true_ civ? Think aobut it, and then
make a real difference.
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Here's how to handle the matter. If Firaxis does not put an option in the menu to disable, go to rules.txt (or the equivalent) and disable every civ specific unit. And before anyone starts yelling the famous Jello Biarfa refrain of "Give me convenience or give me death!", let me point out that activision expected customers to rewrite the entire AI. So unless Firaxis buries the rules.txt stuff in the code (and if you thought the modders were mad already at the 7 civ limit . . .), this is not a game breaking issue. Of course that's assuming unique units don't work. I'll see if they do before I disable.
California uber alles!
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I like it. The more units the better I like it. Just wait and see before condemning the game. I counted the posts ahead of mine and the vote is 13 no's posting 21 times, 10 yes or no opinion posting 13 times.
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[This message has been edited by joseph1944 (edited April 29, 2001).]
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Zylka
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~
[This message has been edited by Zylka (edited April 29, 2001).]
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cyclotron7
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Drowning in Schnitzel
Jan 2001
time: 21:12
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quote:
You guys want every civ to be the same? Is that how it is in reality? I'm all for civ-specific unit/abilities. Most of you say you want it to be historical, but you want every civ the same.
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Is this a joke? I hear people saying, "but I want Civ2 to be realistic, and have cultural identity, and I don't want bland civs!"
People who say this obviously miss the point. Civ-specific units create bland Civs! If I want to rule in the modern age, I will always be Germans so I can get panzers or whatever. The game will degenerate into "oh, he will get panzers later on, so I better deal with him now." All you realism fans should at least see this as silly and unrealistic!
Cultural identity? Civilization allows you to create this cultural identity yourself, with your decisions. I can't imagine anyone who has thought about this issue more than 30 seconds deciding that indeed, cultural identity is better when somebody forces it on you. Stupid!
Realism, huh? Well guess what, Civ is about making your own history, not reading a history book! Is there something in the English genetic code that makes them have longbows? No. Some german "panzer gene?" No. Obvioulsy, people who say this is realistic have no concept of what realism is and just want to repeat earth history. Some of us, you know, want to MAKE OUR OWN history! That is what Civ is for! These "bonuses" are based on environment, and are not somehow imprinted into a civ.
And for all you ******** who still like this idea: I hope you'll have fun with a tribe of landlocked vikings who can't build their special unit for no reason other than the stupidity of Firaxis. I will be mocking you from afar, playing a good and balanced game of Civ2 where I decide my fate, not the game companies. You suck, Firaxis!
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- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"
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JamesJKirk
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Dixon, CA USA
Jan 1970
time: 21:12
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Would you much rather the end game being filled with several democracies, each occupying a large continent with all the same units and features as the other civs have? How does this represent each civ having a distinct culture, if the whole game routes the civs to go in the exact same direction?
I sincerely doubt the special units will be absolutely destabilizing, they'd just be there to give an extra edge to each civ at a certain point. It's not as if suddenly when the discovery of mobile warfare, the Germans will automatically roll our dozens of panzer units, thus wiping out the globe, I'm sure they'll be expensive, and if wouldn't be too effective to build too many of them.
Also, there's no way Firaxis would not have the option to disable something so controversial, so I don't see why all of you are so riled up
[This message has been edited by JamesJKirk (edited April 29, 2001).]
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sedge9
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Athens, OH
Apr 2001
time: 05:12
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It does seem like if every civ had a unique unit with unique stats then the game could get unbalanced.
On the flipside,if unique units were only unique in appearence,that is, every equally advanced civ could build an alternative to another civ's unique unit with equal abilities to attack and defend(for example Abrams tank = german panzer tank)...seems like that would attribute more of a personal identity to your civ. A good thing.
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Just maybe the Unique Units will give Veteran status to a stack, or just maybe you will only be able to build a few or just build one instead of 50. What if every Civs on the map can build all unique units when they make the appropriate discovery? In the other thread about the first screen shots a lot of you were saying how bad they are, then we get the new screen shots and all of a sudden they are not so bad. I will say it again; wait a while before condemning the game. Is PC Gamer and PC Game Play the same magazine? If so then our copy will be here is a week or so and than we can see write up ourselves.
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Dylan Baker
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Washington, DC
Feb 2001
time: 05:12
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LMAO!
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Adm.Naismith
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Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
time: 06:12
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We debated a lot about way to differentiate Civs, by units, government or others aspects.
If I remember right, Brian Reynolds (that surely know some bit about Civ II equal race and SMAC diversified) explained in an interview how game mostly introduced "hard coded" unique traits to game factions a few years ago (Starcraft, Warcraft, Command & Conquer), but now the way to go is to put back the choice into the players hands.
We can live very well with unique units if they aren't "preassigned" to a Civ, but they depend from a player style of play, e.g. player chose a tech tree minor research, so "trade" a special unit instead of another benefit, e.g. a better chemical laboratory to research a bit quicker.
Those aren't flat options, are deep choices. These wouldn't be predefined civ strong and weak points, these would be yours decision effects shaping your Civ. During WW I British developed first early tanks, but between the two World Wars the Germans developed better the concept, then in WW II their blitzkrieg tactic, moulded around Panzer mobility was a winner, until the Ally catched up.
I understand that someone can suppose to draw the best path to gain all the more useful special units, but that can be made less obvious: in peacetime do you still chose Panzer or a better laboratory? Bread and butter or Cannons? Choices.
I hope Yin26 and all the others that vote in favour of Unique units will like this approach, because it save their urge for Civ difference without the limits of prebuilding factions. Others, like me, would enjoy the freedom of a personal path to the Civ.
Is it really too late for a Civ III tweak as mine suggestion?
Let's hope not, or let's start looking around for something else where to put our money: I just discovered a nice restaurant downtown, and may be my wife will love more a romantic lunch then a Civ III game or two; end of this game can be greater, you know 
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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant
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Greg_was_here
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There should be civ unique-ness or bonus or whatever.
But the dilemma goes to whether it should be pre-given attributes or earned ones?
For playing earth map with fixed starting position, I think the pre-given bonus really makes sense and no doubt it will add extra depth and fun. However, for playing a random map, I think pre-given bonus is utter non-sense. It simply doesn't fit into ever changing factors and variables.
Civ uniqueness should be earned by each civ through game and that's the only applicable way to deal with either the earth map or a random one.
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Zylka
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Fine Yin, I'll push all of this playacting aside.
I seem to have hit close to home with the hostility of your response. Was I right in guessing you wandered over here from a game of starcraft or red alert? Please leave your preference for those low attention-span games elsewhere.
Bottom line is, the majority of players DON'T want civ specific changes. I don't care if more than 10 people are for it (seems like an exaggeration in itself), because 90% of the players don't. Yourself and a few groups of newbies may want it, so go make "exciting" disparity scenarios when civ3 comes out instead.
I know it's hard for someone with your "reasoning" to understand and furthermore accept, but a HUGE majority of players know this is stupid and don't want it. Go crawl back to your insignificant minority hole and stop flooding these forums with newbie babble.
Thanks,
Zylka
[This message has been edited by Zylka (edited April 30, 2001).]
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30-04-2001 09:52
). This puts me in a penalty too.
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