17-01-2003 14:55									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Floating cities? Cool!

Then we would definitely need some special resources in the oceans.

	18-01-2003 07:33									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

What I want to see is the box on a retail store.

Have You played Age of wonders 2?. It is a true succesor to MoM with a lot of thing in common and excelent gameplay.

	20-01-2003 12:05									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I played AoW2 for a little time - The only thing that I didn't like there was the very long battles that occur sometimes ....

	20-01-2003 15:14									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I bought AoW and played it a little bit because at the time I was all committed to SMAC.
I boguth later AoW2 but never actually playet it yet.

I told the same thing in the off-topic MoM thread in the MoO3 forum (), and they replied me that in case AoW is much more reminiscent of HoMM than of MoM.
As I had never even seen a demo of HoMM I finally found and got last week HoMM Platinum colleciton which is a 6-pack with all the versions and addons prior to the current HoMM IV one.

But it will be sometime before I really test it, as I'm trying to lower the time I spend in gaming, and anyway the first new game I'll be going to play is MystIII-Exile which I got in 2001 and never found the time yet to properly dedicate to, after having only browsed halfway thru the first age...

	20-01-2003 21:59									#35
	Increase Your PM Length

Maybe the only thing we lack about MM2 is the name, just compare AOW2 with this list of wishes, it´s almosts identical. Feature to feature, AOW2 is MOM2, the only things it doesn't have are artifact creation and a random map generator.

	21-01-2003 16:22									#36
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GN, I only played the first campaign of AoW, and bought AoW2 but didn't find the time to play it yet.

I'd agree with you according to my firsthand limited experience.

I was only reporting the opinions of players much more into the genre than me, and knowing in detail several titles in it that I only know by name...

	22-01-2003 16:21									#37
	Put an end to popups!

I always think about MoM 2..... and I have a VERY strong gut feeling it is Firaxis' next project.
(type in Master of Magic 2 on the AT&T search, your are at infogrames website, first choice, allthough I could not see those words....)
Also, if any time to release a fantasy game would be good, now would be it.... Lord of the Rings in the theaters helps the case.
Firaxis is working on a game, but have not announced it yet, and they do own the rights



anyways MoM2

the original MoM2 had a 3-d map. That would be neat.
In fact from the early screenshots, it looked like it was all one giant map, (with a fog of war to preserve memory), but no tactical map, the battles would be faought on the 3-d map!

A. I would like to see that.
B. I would like to see castles being able to be built and used in tactical battle.
C. I would like to see a scenario editor.... to make missions.
D. I would like to see a walk through town function, so you could chit chat with your peasants.
E. More planes...... including underworld, demon, and summoning planes.
f. I would rather have an excellent AI than multiplayer.
H. Sometimes you could go into a den, and run circles around a large slow beast with an archer until it was dead, I'd like for there to be a retreat option, so the battle could carry on into the next level if the beast could get to the edge of the map. (this may have been in the original)
I. I would prefer NO RTS, but if it had to have it, my preference would be for Baldurs Gate style pausible RTS.
J. I like the idea of the artifacts..... I think it was MOO 2 that had the X's you had to collect? (Never played MOO2)
K. Perhaps weapons forging, and units that take the actual number of citizens out of the city. So on the tactical screen, a unit of 100 elven archers would be represented by a unit of 100 elven archers, and once the 100 elven bows were fashioned, the elven city of Silverdale would lose 100 population.
L. Actual icon stockpiles of gems, gold, adamantium and mithril. In civ 3 you connect to Iron, you have iron for all your units. In MoM2 you would have a road to iron, and would only have enough to forge 52 swords (1 a week), with a mine 104 (2 a week), with an ironworks 208. Then you could stockpile what you didn't use and trade it, for gold perhaps, maybe a trade of food for iron, etc.....
M. four seasons, I want snow battles.
N. I would rather have the concept of you being a god than a wizard.
O. Make a victory condition, achieving god-hood, and joining the rest of the gods.
P. I never played SMAC, but I think MoM 2 would be a great candidate for the unit workshop thing.... it would be even more fun to be able to outfit any soldier from the streets with the "Axe of Fiery Death" and "Helm of Golden Wings" and then hand the soldier next to him a pair of old boots.
Q. Total Annihilation Kingdoms had this thing where as units gained more experience and kills they would have parts of them turn gold.
R. A kill count for each individual
S. The ability, or automatic ability, to award medals to soldiers for a host of glorius feats, from slaying 10 orcs to healing 5 men, to winnign when the odds were against you
T. Ability to name terrains, I wanna rename those snowy plains the Red River plains after the bloody battle where my army was sent into retreat.
U. Dragon Knights!
V. Kensai and Ninjas (I love ninjas).
W. other than that the game was damn near perfect already!

Hmm.... I kinna liked this game..... and I think about it still all the time, allthough now it really is too old, andthat AI to crappy for me to care to play the original.

	23-01-2003 11:38									#38
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by NeOmega I would rather have an excellent AI than multiplayer.

YES! YES!!!

	23-01-2003 12:21									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by NeOmega f. I would rather have an excellent AI than multiplayer.

This is the problem with Civ 3. They went for the good AI, and that presents a major problem for the game design. Namely everything we as humans like about a game tends to add orders of magnitude to the complexity of the game, which in turn makes writing the AI and computing it all that much more difficult. This is the reason that some damned fine games like SMAC and MoM had "bad" AIs (which under the circumstances were actually pretty good), while we find Civ 3 boring and linear, though the AI is improved. There is no way that the AI could compete against your ability to figure out how to use the spells, beasts, magic items, and heroes in wicked combinations. This unfortunately isn't going to change soon. Computing power is going up fairly quickly, but the complexity of a game like MoM is such that we need years of advances to bring complex game AI up to the level of a beginner chess game.

	23-01-2003 14:13									#40
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by NeOmega W. other than that the game was damn near perfect already!

HAH! "Other than THAT", how funny!

You took the heart out of MoM and turned it inside out like a glove....
Many of your proposals are just eyecandy, and those which are not are instead asking to change the very same things which characterise MoM and make it what it is and make us loving it.
Other changes bring in concepts form other genres which look to me totally unrelated and irrelevant to MoM gameplay.

They could be acceptable in general, and they make probably for an interesting game, but I don't think the result would have anything to do with MoM more than with any other "game" in general.

That's my skindeep opinion, anyway

For the rest, I agree with Sikander, as always

	23-01-2003 14:25									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Sikander:
yah I am aware that the more complex the game, the weaker the Ai will be.
Something even more interesting, beleive it or not, alot of my civ III skills I got from watching how the AI worked. I am very impressed with the AI, and you will notice in 1.14f it even identifies and fortifies in choke points.

But, Speak for yourself when you say "we" find civ III boring and linear, I have enjoyed immensley all the games I have played for more than two hours, regardless of victory or defeat

MariOne

I bought Master of Magic twice only wipeout for the Playstation have I ever done that before.

I was being a bit sarcastic, seeing how Master of Magic is by far my favorite game of all time.

And yes, most of my suggestions are eye candy.... but I have a real bad sweet tooth when it comes to graphics.

	24-01-2003 03:05									#42
	Got spare money?

Some thoughts:

I don't think that adding even more planes will improve the game. It's would be better to have two well thought out, interesting planes than a ton of lower quality planes. I do think that there should be more ways to travel between planes, such a whirlpool like in Heroes3, gates which are one-way, hidden gates which can only be found with spells and entrances which can only be used by a hero carrying a certain item (a bit like the Cave of Wonders in Aladdin).

I think that it should be possible to integrate heroes into units, giving the unit extra abilties and the hero protection.

There should be a new type of unit; swarms. These consist of large numbers of small creatures, i.e bats, ravens, imps, maggots, snakes etc

Units should be upgradable.

The beastmen are a rather sorry bunch of fantasy leftovers. Bin them.

The Nomads should definitely have cities, not moveable camps. It's their culture that's nomadic, but they can still have cities, a bit like the Mongols.

A spherical map. I'm usually out on a limb with this, but I'd love to see a civ-style game get some meaningful 3D treatment.

	24-01-2003 12:13									#43
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by NeOmega But, Speak for yourself when you say "we" find civ III boring and linear, I have enjoyed immensley all the games I have played for more than two hours, regardless of victory or defeat

Myself, and about half of the people at Apolyton it seems. I played Civ 3 for about a week before I put it away for good. It's almost the same old game, with "improved" graphics (I'd actually prefer Civ 2 graphics, no animation of embarrassing cavemen who look like they belong on a console game, and wonder movies as a bonus), and severely diminshed gameplay for the human. Playing Civ 3 I felt like a special olympian in a race with my peers (the AI). There were simply no alternatives to playing the same game as the AI, and playing that game every time. Worse, like the special olympics everyone gets a ribbon, or in this case everyone gets to catch up to you as you cool your heels waiting to be allowed to research once again. You are basically forced to play the world's worst wargame against the AI, and your strategic options are reduced to one, attrition. There was nothing I liked about this game after the opening movie. I'll give it away to the first person who sends me a postage paid package for it.

	24-01-2003 15:10									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I dunno whether it's more or less than half and how should be that representative.

I know that for how many CivIII enthusiasts that dwell in ACS CivIII forums, there is also a non-negligible population who share Sikander and mine opinion.
And this is not "simply" about personal preferences.
That is, of course this is just *our opinion*, but it's not a "just because", it is grounded upon motivated arguments, which you might not agree upon but which give solid reasons for our statements.

Personally, I endured 2-3 months before shelving it... maybe I have a slower PC
Sad thing, is that the game is disappointing (to many...) DESPITE the new concepts introduced.

Anyway, it's no use to rekindle CivIII wars also in this MoM forum
Face it, as we know that there are many who like CivIII, as well you should live with the fact that when one of us says that "we" don't like CivIII, this "we" doesn't encompass you but nevertheless there are *enough* of "us" to justify the use of "we" in general

	24-01-2003 15:37									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

More constructively:

I like Sandman thoughts about planes.

What I don't like about his and NeOmega thoughts on units, is that much of what you propose is "somehow" already provided by the game as it is.

The units can indeed be customised/upgraded: by the use of unit spells.
You can take any normal unit and make it flying or swimming, stronger in attack/defense, provide it with peculiar immunities, etc...
I agree that you might revamp the way those spells are to be cast/maintained, to allow for larger and easier manageable armies of units with the same enhancements ("design"...)
But I don't see importing SMAC-like unit workshop would do any good to the idea itself of MoM units, which are not made of components but directly of different levels of the same Stats and different Attributes.

Also, the game *already* provides a Hero/units "integration", in that the units stacked with a Hero can gain some benefit in experience / combatstats, if the Hero has the appropriate skills...
This even works with some special units (Angels, Paladins), and not just with Heroes...

In summary, I'd be one of those contented of a Windows porting/updating and a modernisation of the user interface, without changing the mechanics in the first place.
THEN, I agree that the game would also benefit of additions and new concepts, but those should not change the game more than its, say, 20-30%. Imho of course.

What woud tell a real MoM2, from a
JustAnotherGenericFantasyTBS2 (of which we had several examples in all this meanwhile)????
I *humbly* suggest that we should not forget to keep this in mind when we talk about a MoM2...

	24-01-2003 15:42									#46
	Increase Your PM Length

OH, I forgot:
said the above about units, the idea of swarms is an interesting one, it could be added without disrupting the essence of MoM units concept.
Only problem, is that the "spearmen" unit already begins with just one sword, you'll need to readjust the unit stats system to make place for units made up of much more and much *weaker* individual figures...
That could be partly addressed for instance by giving to a swarm's figure a mere 10% to-hit for their single-sword, instead of the default 30%...

	24-01-2003 16:47									#47
	Put an end to popups!

Here's a sample.

Some simple math (and Excel functions ) show that a 10% to-hit swarm needs 22-23 figure to be comparable to the distribution curve of a Spearmen unit's chances to actually land N hits (regardless of shields).

If we lower the swarm's to-hit to 5%, 40 "insects" can be allowed without making the swarm stronger than spearmen. I attach a plot.

We could make a swarm peculiar in that it does not gain "strength" by experience, but breeds with time, allowing it to start small in numbers but to increase significantly beyond its startign size (unlike units), becoming eventually devastating.
Also, swords/arrows would have very little effect to damage it, whereas fiery breath, or poison, or mana balls would act as deadly "pesticide"...


But but... would all this really add to gameplay? And ultimately, to fun?

Attachment: mom swarms.bmp
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	25-01-2003 00:15									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Also, the game *already* provides a Hero/units "integration", in that the units stacked with a Hero can gain some benefit in experience / combatstats, if the Hero has the appropriate skills...

I suppose, but I feel that heroes generally look out of place with one whole square to themselves. What if heroes came in multiple unit groups? i.e. a paladin and his two squires, or a wizard and an apprentice, or a ranger and several hawks, or a pair of equally powerful genies? It would be especially cool if some of the follower type units could become heroes in their own right with enough experience.

quote: We could make a swarm peculiar in that it does not gain "strength" by experience, but breeds with time, allowing it to start small in numbers but to increase significantly beyond its startign size (unlike units), becoming eventually devastating. Also, swords/arrows would have very little effect to damage it, whereas fiery breath, or poison, or mana balls would act as deadly "pesticide"...

I agree.

quote: But but... would all this really add to gameplay? And ultimately, to fun?

The most important question. Swarms make more sense if one wants to put certain creatures into the game, rather than giant size versions of the creature (i.e. the doombat, surely a swarm of bats is better?). There is a problem of how useful swarms are to the player; is it suicide to take on an enemy without at least one swarm, or can you leave them at home?

Having said that, the whole point of MoM is that there is too much to use all at once, and there is no *best* unit, so I think it would be perfectly acceptable to have swarms open as one of many options to the player. There could be a retort which grants a wizard additional swarm powers, say cheaper summoning or faster growth.

	25-01-2003 01:30									#49
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ahh, a new version of MoM; that would be simply spectacular.

One thing I would like to see is a Planar Creation Spell.
For example, you cast this "Planar Genesis". You are asked to pay mana for it. So, for each, lets say, 5 Mp spended, you get +1x1 extra grid to the new map (with a minimum of 100 Mp spended, and a max of, lest say, 1000 Mp).
Then a planar gate is created in the city holding your tower (any previous gate there is destroyed,).

Now, you have your new plane. Depending on the magical realm you are specialliced into, the squares of the new map are under that influence (like the one found around a node).

But the new plane would need upkeep, about 1 Mp every 4 squares (or there could be a pre made table of values for diferent sizes of planes).

To add a better gameplay, some spells to affect the plane in question could be made, like a sort of "Planar Cancelation", etc.

Note: If "Planar Seal" is active, is impossible to cast this spell.



Now, the game already have a very good spell tree (that still has home for a lot of improvement). But what about a second tree, with technologies?

However, they must be technologies related to the "time" of the game: Getting to the future would not be very satisfiyign.

What I mean is a system to, somehow, regulate the avaliability of buildings, add some new ones and new units, as well as the possibility of doing "tree crossing" (to get a certain kind of spell you need a certain tipe of tech, etc).

Examples:

"Clockwork Mechanisms": This would allow you to build Clock Towers in your cities, giving the sence of time, therefore increasing production.
But, if you combien this tech with, lets say, a spell called Animate Artifact, you can create Golems.

"Composite Bow": Something like this could be used to improve existing bowmen, but only avaliable to races that already can use bowmen, for example.

Then you can have techs for diferent kinds of siege machines, ships, armors, and a myriad of things.
But techs should be more as a "support" feature, not primordial. The last thing you would wish is to take protagonism from the spells.

	25-01-2003 08:03									#50
	Tired of ads?

quote: That is, of course this is just *our opinion*, but it's not a "just because", it is grounded upon motivated arguments, which you might not agree upon but which give solid reasons for our statements.

I played it for a week before I shelved it?

quote: Anyway, it's no use to rekindle CivIII wars also in this MoM forum

Too late, war's rekindled.

as far as MoM 2 goes, eye candy makes the game. It would be ridiculous to put out another civ II tile style game.

tel me in that week or 2 months you played it.... (I probably have only played it for two months total), did you play any level above regent?

Anyway, it's no use to rekindle CivIII wars also in this MoM forum

	27-01-2003 07:12									#51
	Remove this text

What I hope for in a computer game is that it will remain interesting to me for a long time. MoM, SMAC, MOO2 all managed do this, Civ 3 did not. I enjoy the complex systems in the games I mentioned. There are a lot of styles of play that are viable, and the games are so complex that even within these styles (turtle, ICS, high tech conquest etc.) there are numerous small differences in tactics, favorite units etc. Look at the difference that starting with a certain race, or with a certain style of wizard, or on Myrror make. You can say the same thing (though to a somewhat lesser extent) about the factions in SMAC or the races (including custom races) of MOO2. Thus while I purchase one game, there are a lot of possible variations to explore, both in the initial starting conditions and in the subsequent gameplay.

I don't play computer games for a challenge, as they (the AI) are not all that good at the style of games that I enjoy. My fun comes from inventing new tactics and strategies and trying them out. The more varied and numerous the game systems are the longer that game is going to hold my interest as I try different combinations. Thus for me games are more a voyage of discovery than a continuing proof that humans can beat the crap out of an AI on anything more complicated than chess.

I agree with Mario that a port to a modern system / OS would be enough for me to lay down my money. If there are improvements to the graphics and bug fixes and tweaks to the AI or systems for balance purposes, great. But I don't need a whole new game based upon the idea of MoM, unless of course by some chance it happens to be fantastic. I'd almost rather have a refitted game that I'm sure that I'll like than take a chance though. The reductionism that made Civ 3's AI better is fine for some, but it doesn't float my boat, and I'll have to keep using that old DOS boot disk if that is the turn that any MoM 2 project takes.

	27-01-2003 22:57									#52
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Hahaha - I just thought of tactical combat in a MP PBEM game...

	28-01-2003 07:07									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Sikander What I hope for in a computer game is that it will remain interesting to me for a long time. MoM, SMAC, MOO2 all managed do this, Civ 3 did not. I enjoy the complex systems in the games I mentioned. There are a lot of styles of play that are viable, and the games are so complex that even within these styles (turtle, ICS, high tech conquest etc.) there are numerous small differences in tactics, favorite units etc. Look at the difference that starting with a certain race, or with a certain style of wizard, or on Myrror make. You can say the same thing (though to a somewhat lesser extent) about the factions in SMAC or the races (including custom races) of MOO2. Thus while I purchase one game, there are a lot of possible variations to explore, both in the initial starting conditions and in the subsequent gameplay.

my favorite part about MoM also, the variety.

quote: I don't play computer games for a challenge, as they (the AI) are not all that good at the style of games that I enjoy. My fun comes from inventing new tactics and strategies and trying them out.

And it sucks if they always work because the AI is weak.

quote: The more varied and numerous the game systems are the longer that game is going to hold my interest as I try different combinations. Thus for me games are more a voyage of discovery than a continuing proof that humans can beat the crap out of an AI on anything more complicated than chess.

I have tried many variations in Civ III, and failed many times. It makes tyhe victories that much sweeter.

quote: I agree with Mario that a port to a modern system / OS would be enough for me to lay down my money. If there are improvements to the graphics and bug fixes and tweaks to the AI or systems for balance purposes, great. But I don't need a whole new game based upon the idea of MoM, unless of course by some chance it happens to be fantastic. I'd almost rather have a refitted game that I'm sure that I'll like than take a chance though. The reductionism that made Civ 3's AI better is fine for some, but it doesn't float my boat, and I'll have to keep using that old DOS boot disk if that is the turn that any MoM 2 project takes.

there already are ports to more modern OS's available, and those 1995 graphics are horrible by today's standards...
I don't quite understand what you are seeing as reductionism..... I played Civ II for over 4 years, and quite alot at that, Civ III improved many things... especially resources, trade and diplomacy. The artillery concept works fantastically, and the only disappointment I have is the air power system.

	31-01-2003 23:51									#54
	Suffering from ads?

If someone does do MOM2 i hope they don't do
anything but up the graphics and put a switch
in for the SOM.

I think Dune2 is better than Dune 2000 (even the graphics)

I think System Shock is better than System Shock 2

	20-02-2003 19:35									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, MoM2... I dream of having EXACTLY the same game as the original, only up to at least Civ2-level tech standards (functional efficient Windows interface, no 3D whizbang necessary) with Internet/MP.

No additional loads of stuff that will mainly unbalance game/create problems !

Look at the Civ series : Civ1 was a Wonder, 2 was mostly an overhaul as I'm talking about, CTP was lost in the void of bad design, Civ3 I don't know but I'm not very impressed, it looks like it'll only force me to upgrade my rig ...

I've heard that Age of Wonders 2 was comparable to MoM, with additional 3D whizbang . .. Just can't find it in stores here in France (out of stocks)

BTW, I run MoM fine in W98SP without even having to launch DOS mode, and use MoSlo to reduce proc speed.
What you need is only max DOS memory free, clean config.sys and autoexec of all useless BS and it's ok .

I just can't get sound to work , my card never get recognized by the game ... No big deal, with my 4-speaker system MoM sound isn't impressive !

As for graphics those of MoM , MOO1 and generally everything < 1994 look bad, but I'm Ok with MOO2, Civ2 or even EFS graphics - they are 640*480 or better, that's ok for me.

Last edited by PDifolco on 20-02-2003 at 19:43

	22-02-2003 09:39									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

More magic items with fancy names. I suggest an enchanted meataxe, named (what else?) the Eldritch Cleaver.

	23-02-2003 05:52									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I've heard that Age of Wonders 2 was comparable to MoM, with additional 3D whizbang . .. Just can't find it in stores here in France (out of stocks)

Comparable, yes, but not as good nor complete.
AoW 2 is a very good game, and the MultiPlayer mode is very fun (I have been through very long games by MP).
The game tries to emulate the original MoM, but with a different interface, and much less detailed.

The game, however, boost a very good set of interesting features, such as completely different units for each race (there are 15 races with 7 different units each). The fact that you have a Dominion (an area on which you can cast spells, that can be expanded with mage towers and heroes, between some other means) gives a different twist to the game.
The battle modes are the best of all. It gathers the good and varied 3D fights from MoM and adds some new things (such as forts, better city enviroment, speciall buildings, etc) and very good graphics. Definitely, the best improvement was here.
But, saddly, there are few spells (no more than 20 per magic realm, which now separate in Water, Fire, Air, Earth, Death, Life and Cosmos). Few heroes and lack of some very small but good details from MoM.

The game, though very good, with high replay value, exelent multiplayer and, overall, quite fun, is not but a pale shadow of the original MoM.
Still, I advice getting it to any MoM fan.

	07-03-2003 02:06									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Rex Little More magic items with fancy names. I suggest an enchanted meataxe, named (what else?) the Eldritch Cleaver.

Use the itemmaker program (included) to make your own magic items that can be found in the game.

	10-03-2003 00:27									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, AoW2 is good, but as you said, there aren't many spells. Also the battles lack the epic feel, as only 5 men per side are allowed.

Personally, I think there is another game in the succession of MoM which captures its spirit better:

Dominions: Priests, Prophets & Pretenders(free demo available)

The graphics are pixellated and the interface is cumbersome, but it's so loaded with units, races, spells, items and huge epic battles that I find it very addictive even in single player mode.

I find the undead nation, Ermor, particularly fascinating. In other games the Undeads are just another faction with a little life magic vulnerability, but in Dominions they spread like a plague and corrupt the land. They are powerful, but everyone else hates them, even in multiplayer, because they leave only useless wastelands behind. There are also underwater nations, and castle sieges.... I could go on, but I sound like a fanboy already.

	14-03-2003 16:13									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by darcy Personally, I think there is another game in the succession of MoM which captures its spirit better: Dominions: Priests, Prophets & Pretenders(free demo available) The graphics are pixellated and the interface is cumbersome, but it's so loaded with units, races, spells, items and huge epic battles that I find it very addictive even in single player mode.

I downloaded this demo and tried it out. The demo has almost all the stuff that the main game has, and the complexity of the game makes it very confusing at first. But then I downloaded the quick start tutorial, and that helped a lot by allowing me to start playing the game without the bewildering process of customizing a new pretender.

It certainly is loaded with stuff, and many things about it are very impressive. But there are a lot of flaws that scream "Small Company Syndrone" an the micromanagemet was already starting to get annoying. For example, searching for magic sites is incredibly tedious, since I have to get a mage or priest of each magic type, move it to a province, and turn on the search command, and repeat for every province that I control. Since it does not keep track of what provinces you have searched, you have to memorize or keep a manual list of what provinces have been searched by what kinds of magic users. I would like to skip this whole process, but it is the only possible way to boost your production of mana crystals.

There is also no city building to speak of, and that hurts the game a lot. You are basically limited to whatever sites happen to be in the province, assuming you can find them. For example, the only way to build sages is to take over a province with a library. Most provinces you take over are worthless, only providing tax revenue to support military production in the home province. But still, it does manage to be quite addicting.

Interestingly enough, one of the most annoying aspects of the battles is exactly the same as MoM: your commanders can be killed by lucky archer shots before you have a chance to do anything.