09-05-2002 00:19									#61
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Brazil? No. Portugal? Yes.

	09-05-2002 08:30									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II Bla, bla

I´m with you!
(no, i´m not being sarcastic)

OnT: I think that the Incas or the Spanish shoud be included.

	11-05-2002 08:10									#63
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*Steps aside from chest-thumping, flaming, and whatnot*

First, before accusations go flying around, I take a realistic view of the world, not a rose-colored glasses view along the lines of "America is cool, the world sucks."

*Ahem* That being said, I do feel that Brazil will hold a future in the world more influential than that it holds today. However, the process will be long and require much reform, but, I'll leave that issue for the politicians.

The existance of Brazil as a new civ would probably be less of a favorable choice as opposed to the Incans, primarily due to the fact that Brazil has had relatively little influence on the world (at least, compared to nations such as Rome around AD 1, Spain in the 15th through 17th centuries, Britain after that, and America today). No, I'm not saying America has saved the world from utter annihilation, blah blah blah, it's just a commonly-accepted fact that the U.S. holds the most influence over the world than any other nation today, and has for just over 50 years.

I don't doubt the fact that America as a civ was included primarily due to the demands of a U.S. market, but I feel that our country has had enough effect in modern times to warrant inclusion. After all, as stated previously in another thread, the "Modern Age" in Civ 3 includes the time when America became a world, then super-power. Excluding a country that has been dominant through an entire age would have been somewhat... incomplete.

	12-05-2002 05:22									#64
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 "im not defending all of the united states actions for the last 225 years," 100 good deeds does not justify a single evil act.

On the contrary it's called attonement. Virtually every religion allows for this and if it didn't then we'd all end up in hell.

	12-05-2002 11:55									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II Alright, I'm Brazilian and jdd2007, thems fightin' words! We've had more of an impact on the world than you think! We're bigger than the continental United States or all of Europe minus Russia, we have 175 million people. During the exodus from Europe in the 19th century, Brazil caught a quarter of those new comers (the U.S. itself had less than half). We helped fight in the invasion of Italy in World War Two. Alberto Santos Dumont (a Brazilian) was the first person to build a heavier-than-air flying machine that could take off under its own power (NOT the Wright Brothers because theirs used a catapult to lift them off the ground). Today, Brazil's economy is the 5th largest in the world, and last year were had a 4% growth in our GNP, which is better than most industrialized nations in the best of times. We are the next generation super power. Not like the U.S. which uses treachery and deceit to advance itself politically in the world. We have not "influenced" the world as much because we've had the good sense to leave other people alone rather than terrorize them!!! Of course, there is that famous quote... "Brazil is the up and coming country of the future... and always will be."

If talking about Future ,China and India will be the superpower each with 7.3% and 6 % economic growth respectively,China and India has long influenced the world for thousands of years.
I dont believe Brazil has the potential to be a superpower because I always believe New World Civilization cannot compete with Old World Civilization
So does US,US will no longer be the superpower in 20 years time.The future of US is dim with decling population,high divorce rate,immigrants taking up the population,declining literacy,American people had no sense of conservativeness.Situation in Europe at least isnt so bad,they are more conservative than US and Europeans dont have so much social problems as the US.it is the Old World Civ that has the bright future!

	12-05-2002 12:10									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Fayadi So does US,US will no longer be the superpower in 20 years time.The future of US is dim with decling population,high divorce rate,immigrants taking up the population,declining literacy,American people had no sense of conservativeness.

... Well you can't argue with that. Everywhere I go I see the number of people living in the new local subdivisions leaving. Those who stay can't read and march around the streets advocating for abortion non-stop. And they're all Russian too. Odd...

	12-05-2002 13:01									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Fayadi So does US,US will no longer be the superpower in 20 years time.The future of US is dim with decling population,high divorce rate,immigrants taking up the population,declining literacy,American people had no sense of conservativeness.Situation in Europe at least isnt so bad,they are more conservative than US and Europeans dont have so much social problems as the US.it is the Old World Civ that has the bright future!

Paging Patrick Buchanan, paging Patrick Buchanan.

Immigrants taking up the population? Who do you think the US is made of, Native Americans?

Americans have no sense of conservativeness? I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the US has moved to the right, albeit slightly over the past several years. And, besides, I fail to see why liberalism will bring the downfall of the US.

How does the US have a declining population? Figures? IIRC we're about to break the 300m mark.

high divorce rate: we;'ve had a high divorce rate for the past 30 years, still ticking.

On topic:
Brazil has a decent sized population, has the rainforests, priceless in value. I don't see it being a superpower, but I don't think that any nation should be discounted easily when using a vague "sometime in the future" standard.

after all, in 1787, would people have said that the US will someday be the most powerful country? Maybe a few, not many.
What about the USSR in 1917?
What about England, Rome, etc during their birthing stage?

granted, the above statement may actually not confrom to anything on this thread, as it has been awhile since i read the first responses.

	13-05-2002 03:40									#68
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I think by conservatism, he meant environmental, and that's true, generally people in the US aren't as concerned about the environment or depletion of resources as Europeans are. But then again, we have a lot more resources to deplete here too!

	13-05-2002 10:09									#69
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quote: Originally posted by JamesJKirk I think by conservatism, he meant environmental, and that's true, generally people in the US aren't as concerned about the environment or depletion of resources as Europeans are. But then again, we have a lot more resources to deplete here too!

Well, I hope that's what he meant too, but I still fail to see how that would doom america, and not Europe. Like you said, we have so many resources. Its easy to be green when you're belgian and theres some forests to conserve and not many people to feed and move around. Whatever, hopefully he will say what he was thinking by that.

	13-05-2002 17:27									#70
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Europe has been depleting its resources for 100 years before America. And it's more than likely that Europe has fewer resources than the entire Continental US... and that's not even including Alaska.

	13-05-2002 20:31									#71
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Nigeria will have 100 millions in a near future...

	14-05-2002 19:51									#72
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Just to be nice,I am not European,I am a Chinese.
The difference in thinking of an English and an American is very obvious,why? American society tends to have more social problem ,American people tends to do more crazy things (from media of different countries,no propaganda) in crimes, many american student now like to drop out of the school,very bad situation,no real effort to encourage people to go to school.Having the liberal not to go to school is horrondous

And YES American is the world's biggest polluter,they have no sense of caring for environment,DAMN BUSH for breaking the Kyoto treaty.Our Earth is not as green as before,to make it natural again it took a long time and the situation on Earth is not like CivIII where you can plant forest again and make the world green again.In Geography it is said that the environment is being damaged faster than what it can recover by horrondous human activities(In America) .It is sad to see Earth has lost its "green" and "naturality"

Last edited by Fayadi on 14-05-2002 at 20:00

	14-05-2002 19:56									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Fayadi Just to be nice,I am not European,I am a Chinese. The difference in thinking of an English and an American is very obvious,why? American society tends to have more social problem ,American people tends to do more crazy things (from media of different countries,no propaganda) in crimes, many american student now like to drop out of the school,very bad situation,no real effort to encourage people to go to school.Having the liberal not to go to school is horrondous

While yes, America does have a pretty high drop-out rate (compared to other countries), it's not really that much of a problem. I know only 2 or 3 people who have dropped out, and the rest of the people I know are pretty smart, and most are going to college. I think that the way public education works is fine.

	16-05-2002 08:00									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II Alright! Alright! Yeesh! Look, I don't know the full details of the law suit against the Simpsons, but I do know that just because somebody in the government of Brazil is wasting their time on a law suit (probably the people who are being influenced by the tourism companies *never thought of that didya?*) it doesn't mean the whole nation of 175 million is flipping over it. I mean, the U.S. government has done some stupid stuff too. 12 million bucks to make a pen to write in space and the Soviets used a pencil. The Dutch went to war over tulips. The English went to war over the Faulkland Islands! Every nation, great or not, has done stupid things in the past.

Hey, arent you the guy who renamed Argentina as the land under my feet?

I thought that our only rivalry was about Pele vs Maradona.
Not something else.

	16-05-2002 10:48									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Kublai-Khan Hey, arent you the guy who renamed Argentina as the land under my feet? I thought that our only rivalry was about Pele vs Maradona. Not something else.

Yes our only rivality is Pele vs Maradona , and Pele will always be better hehehehe

i think that in the XP pack they should put back the Sioux (i like Sitting Bull hehehe) , for south america they should put the Tupi-Guarani and they should put the US as European culture ,Native americans is ridiculuos (i don't know if is that the right way to say it, my english is poor)

	17-05-2002 20:13									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin On the contrary it's called attonement. Virtually every religion allows for this and if it didn't then we'd all end up in hell.

This has nothing to do with what I said. I am aware of attonement, but I am not religious, so I feel it is irrelevant that most religions have a mechanism for getting into heaven (or whatever) after commiting evil deeds. I admit my comment should have been prefaced with 'IMO'.

	21-05-2002 01:25									#77
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Point taken.