09-05-2002 02:18									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II *Tries to subdue convulsions. Wipes drool from mouth* Can I have myself cryogenically frozen and thawed out on release date so I don't have to wait?

I don't think you should do so. But I also drool!

	09-05-2002 02:29									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Drooling while being cryogenically frozen tends to be reallllly bad.

(Hey, cryogenetics would be a great advanced tech.)

I hate to be a negative nobby but I will wait until autumn to pass judgement on the XP. Some of us feel we have been burned before by Firaxian promises.

(OK, I might even drool a little while waiting for it too but I hope my expectations are not dashed a second time.)

	09-05-2002 02:36									#33
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Well, of course you can be sceptic, but don't whine too much, OK? After the release of Civ3, I actually needed a break from the community because I went nuts of all the whining.

But when we talk about the drooling, as most of you surely already have discovered, I have always been notoric optimist! I don't like to be, and I can't be, very pessimistic.

	09-05-2002 03:11									#34
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radar towers....Yes!

Hopefully, Firaxis will take my advice and include a small wonder: satelite network - giving its owner worldwide radar coverage.

Also, sonar booies (I have no idea how to spell that word so I just went with phoenetics) would be great for those sneaky submarines.

I don't care how much it costs, I want the XP NOW!

	09-05-2002 05:06									#35
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This is good news, I hope we won't have to pay too much for this expansion pack though.

I guess outposts extend your culture in a super fortress type thing, giving you control over an area outside your territory? I hope they won't be too powerful though.. won't chew up a big culture cities culture too easily.
I always think of the culture boundaries being supply boundaries too.. though this dosen't work fully in that sense, so maybe outposts would give you more of a supply route to an area.

I hope they have some kind of event scenario editor, to make scenarios as interesting as the old civ version ones.
It would be good if they add more terrain types.. maybe thats what they are doing.. I mean to bring back swamps (or are these floodplains?? no) and have things like rainforest extra terrain maybe.

PS . Greek girls are as sexy as greek websites too!

	09-05-2002 05:10									#36
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Ok, let's get this clear. The avault article said "this fall". The American autumn. Please clarify exactly when this is. Being from New Zealand, our seasons are different. So when is the official fall season?

	09-05-2002 05:33									#37
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I don't want to whine, but I'm just appaled seeing such juvenile joy seeing things that were just MISSING in the original release and that people will be HAPPY to PAY for.

quote: Three different Internet and LAN game styles: turn-based, simultaneous and "turnless" mode Play-By-EMail and Hotseat games supported

Except for turn-less, it was already part of standard AC.

quote: New map features including airfields, outposts and radar towers Complete game editor and (single-player and multiplayer) scenario support

This was already in CIV2 ! I'm not even talking about AC or CTP, I'm talking about CIV2, that is a SIX years old game !

quote: Feudal Japan and World War II unit packs Two new terrain sets that allow players to customize their maps Additional interface enhancements like unit stacking and auto-bombard Fast MP scenarios like Elimination, Regicide and Capture the Flag

THAT is new.
Well, so it happens that half of the expansion is just the finishing touch for Civ3. And they will make you PAY for this and HAPPY to pay for this and they will call this an expansion.
How can't I have the feeling that the crow is always stupid when I see this ?
Well, I stand with Jimmytrick on this one : I will get it, but I certainly won't waste a cent on it.
Won't pay twice for a game.

	09-05-2002 05:40									#38
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quote: Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer Ok, let's get this clear. The avault article said "this fall". The American autumn. Please clarify exactly when this is. Being from New Zealand, our seasons are different. So when is the official fall season?

Fall means probably september, october or november.

sorry we are so northern hemisphecentric

	09-05-2002 06:25									#39
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quote: Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer Ok, let's get this clear. The avault article said "this fall". The American autumn. Please clarify exactly when this is. Being from New Zealand, our seasons are different. So when is the official fall season?

Expect it sometime between Sep-Dec.

	09-05-2002 06:26									#40
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I'm wondering what the "complete editor" means.

I hope I can add civs. Buildings and units too without using unsupported utilities.

	09-05-2002 06:27									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ I guess outposts extend your culture in a super fortress type thing, giving you control over an area outside your territory? I hope they won't be too powerful though.. won't chew up a big culture cities culture too easily. I always think of the culture boundaries being supply boundaries too.. though this dosen't work fully in that sense, so maybe outposts would give you more of a supply route to an area. PS . Greek girls are as sexy as greek websites too!

This would be good if outposts allow us to claim territory without building cities. That way we can deny territory to the enemy, while not building an unnecessarily high number of cities (and dealing with the corruption).


About the Greek girls...does that mean a lot or a little?

	09-05-2002 07:54									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai BTW, what's this "Regicide" thing? I've never seen that word before... Any helpfull people out there? I know it have been that before.

Regicide: assassination of the king.

I suppose you will have to destroy an enemy Great Leader or something like this...

	09-05-2002 07:56									#43
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Turnless mode? Sounds like Real-Time Strategy Civilization III Without admitting it's an RTS option. hehe

	09-05-2002 07:57									#44
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In AOK, an outpost was an observation tower. I suppose, in Civ3, it will be a primitive "radar" tower, the modern radar having much more detection range.

	09-05-2002 08:38									#45
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I agree with Jimmy. I already paid for most of these features and Firaxis did not deliver, why should I pay for them again? I am tired of being a SUCKER for the software companies. Civ III is already off my hard drive and will probably stay off unless the patch they are calling an enhacement packet is free. Since I doubt that Firaxis is that ethical, I guess I will not be playing Civ III, but then I won't really miss it.

I have enjoyed playing CTP (with mods of course) in lieu of all the Civ III deficiences.

Needless to say that I am very disappointed in Firaxis and how (IMO) they let down Civ III and their fans.

Of course many people will disagree with me and that's OK, after all it is your money to spend or not to spend.

	09-05-2002 09:17									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I really do get a kick out of Sid Meier's quote:

quote: "We're thrilled with the reception our fans around the world have given Civilization® III," said Sid Meier, co-founder of FIRAXIS Games. "They love Civ® III and they are telling us they want more -- more interesting civilizations to play, the ability to play with their friends, and a chance to create their own unique Civilization worlds. We've listened and we're giving them all of that, plus much more."

Yes, the fans want more but it sure as hell ain't becuase they 'love' Civ3.

quote: that were just MISSING in the original release and that people will be HAPPY to PAY for.

To somwhat contradict myself, I don't remember seeing anything about MP being included with my game on the box. I remember Firaxis leading the fans on about MP many months prior to release, but never do I remember any mentioning about MP as being part of the product that we all purchased. Maybe you could enlighten me.

quote: I will get it, but I certainly won't waste a cent on it.

Well, to all piraters alike, I hope all of you download a virus when thinking you are downloading (pirating) the XP. If you're stealing the game, which you would be doing, you deserve it. Even though, you feel you were shorted on Civ3, you don't have the right to steal the XP. Civ3 fulfilled it's purpose/intention, however, it probably didn't fulfill it's expectations, which still doesn't give you the rigth to steal the XP. That's my opinion on pirating the XP, and I have absolutely nothing against you personally.

	09-05-2002 09:27									#47
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Personally, I consider the XP has some features Civ3 sgouldn't have had from the box :
8 new Civs
2 whole new graphic sets
I agree that many things of the XP should have been there right from the start (fixed starting positions), but these 2 are definitely expansion-like.

	09-05-2002 09:32									#48
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quote: I agree that many things of the XP should have been there right from the start

yes, but it's not as if that these features were in the exact listings of features. i whole heartedly agree that these features should have been included in the original release, but like i said above, they were not specifically guaranteed.

	09-05-2002 10:53									#49
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quote: Well, I stand with Jimmytrick on this one : I will get it, but I certainly won't waste a cent on it. Won't pay twice for a game.

my sentements exactly.

I payed $50 when I bought the game the first day when it came out based on the hype and anticipation. FIFTY BUXX. and for what? a beta? I should have returned it while I had the chance, but STUPID ME, thought a few patches and its money well spent.

now with this "expansion pack" we finally get the full game, BUT WE ARE EXPECTED TO PAY $80 TOTAL?

This is what the fish must feel when you hook them up and reel them in. No thanks, I'm not taking the bait.

Firaxis, fuck you!

	09-05-2002 12:42									#50
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* MarkG grabs his stick

morb gets a 2-day vacation to learn to speak properly

	09-05-2002 15:22									#51
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quote: Originally posted by morb now with this "expansion pack" we finally get the full game, BUT WE ARE EXPECTED TO PAY $80 TOTAL?

Well, I presume you did so with the earlier games like Civ2 and SMAC?

As I see it, Civ3 is like almost e-v-e-r-y other game on the market: It has problems that have to be fixed. The difference is that in most other gaming communities, people behave more like we did here at Apolyton earlier(or so do I remember it... ). Can't we all calm down and be a little more nice to Firaxis, and try to lead them on the right track?

	09-05-2002 15:46									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i don't normally make any posts, but my frustration is pretty high...

i'm a big fan of the series and i was one of those people who rushed to the manhattan mall when they sold it a day early. let's face it, either multiplay or a decent editor is pretty standard for 'out-of-the-box'.

okay, so now there's an expansion pack for $30. once you accept that fact, you have to get over the fact that it took an entire year after the release. multiplay and an editor a year later?!

my third point really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. i didn't hear about any plans for multiplay and an editor until six months after the initial release. i think the powers that be could have been more forthcoming rather than us holding our breath with each patch.

anyway, i apologize if this post is an annoyance to some.

	09-05-2002 15:53									#53
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Well, of course you are allowed to have an opinion on the subject! The problem as I see it, comes when the same people say the same, in every thread you are reading, and almost half of the newest threads sometimes are just complaining on the same things. Sometimes I feel that the only difference is the name on the thread...

	09-05-2002 16:32									#54
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quote: Originally posted by shamu99 okay, so now there's an expansion pack for $30. once you accept that fact, you have to get over the fact that it took an entire year after the release. multiplay and an editor a year later?!

here are some more facts

may 1999 - work on civ3 starts
february 2000 - 4 major developement team members leave firaxis(including the head designer and his first replacement
may 2000 - the co-designer and 3 of the 6 programmers of the end product are hired
november 2001 - civ3 is released

having a publisher that wouldnt like an 30% increase(any publisher actually) in the development budget("lets wait(=keep paying wages) one more year to have multiplayer and full scenario abilities"), let me know if things could be done differently(in a financially sound way that is)

	09-05-2002 16:57									#55
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Good news: Firaxis seems to put some effort in XP . We should be happy that, may be to avoid a collision with MOO3, the game release will be later this year (more opportunity to crush bug and balance the beast).

Three different game mode (turn+turnless+simultaneous, while hot seat and PBM are simply deferred turn mode): I've some fear for AI ability to manage three different mode, but I don't want to minimize the effort of Soren & co before I can try AI results.

Airports and radar are welcommed comeback, they probably forgot them in some code library during SMAC -> Civ III conversion

Outpost can be early "radar" (observation point, not really innovative) or enhanced colonies that can survive to enemy border enlargment (more useful IMHO)

Using them as fortress (just for ZOC/defense) it seems like make a duplicate item; using them to extend the border seems interesting, but why don't use the fortress for same feature?

	09-05-2002 18:00									#56
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Given that the editor got enhanced with the patches, I wonder if we'll get the editor with the patch making regular Civ3 match with (I mean new rules tweaks, not features).
I sure hope so.

	09-05-2002 18:43									#57
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quote: november 2001 - civ3 is released

Well Markos, actually it was October .

	09-05-2002 18:57									#58
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were you able to get it during october?

	09-05-2002 19:20									#59
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I don't think anyone who buys a game shortly after release or on pre-order has any right to complain. That's, well, not smart. After Christmas, I was able to buy the game for $35.

Likewise, I am going to wait until the price drops for the expansion pack. Depending on what I read here and at CivFanatics.

	09-05-2002 22:29									#60
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Dam, I just wish that they would release the xp sooner, I want to play civ3 with other human players! After 6 months of playing with the computer Players I have goten sick of it, I need to play with people! Oh well I guess I can wait, I am going to wait a couple weeks after it is released to make and check with people who got it and see if everything is ok with it. I am gald they are not going to charge $50 for it. Do you guys think that they will lets us play hotseat with Civ3 before xp comes out? I wish I could do that, and hope they do, but I know they will most likely not do that. Well I will play other games untill Civ3 mp comes out.