11-05-2002 05:22									#31
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quote: Originally posted by TheBigTurkey Let's go Canada! Make sure to add the French-Canadians too. I'll make sure to play them, and screw them over for a good laugh. But, on a serious note, Celts, Vikings, Sioux, Hebrews, Canadians, Khmer, Dutch, and Polynesians shouldn't be included, because they are RELATIVELY unimportant for the world. Peace out.

Vikings are more inportant (in my view) than the Iroquois. The Vikings created a religion that influenced alot of Europe. (Were do you think we get the names for the weekdays?) I had bearly heard of the Iroquois before Civ3...

	12-05-2002 01:56									#32
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I agree with you in that, but because they have to represent the enitre world, i just don't think they'll get in (if there were 9, they would though, in MY book). Peace, out.

	13-05-2002 02:15									#33
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Damn, nobody's winning this poll! And one guy said he'd accept a Philadelphian civ!

How inconclusive!

	13-05-2002 20:52									#34
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I would NEVER play canadiens or hebrew.
Some of you say that the khmer, the dutch and the celts are relatively unimportant, but one nation that really is unimportant is the hebrew.
It was a state a few hundred years in a area that have been in the middle of great states for centuries, both before and after.
Add the Hyskos people if you absolutly want to add a civ from todays palestina. They was the first civ to succesfully invade the tousands year old culture of Egypt.

	15-05-2002 02:42									#35
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Put it this way, the only reason that there is an American civ in the game is because 80% of the people who buy the game are Americans. Another 19% are Canadians, so by default Canada should be a civ as well.

Besides, Canada has done more for Western Civilization than America has.

The zamboni, telephone, insulin, basketball, hockey, Estella Warren.

...and we let you loud smelly Yanks land your planes here on Sept 11.

	15-05-2002 02:50									#36
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quote: Originally posted by The Eliminator Put it this way, the only reason that there is an American civ in the game is because 80% of the people who buy the game are Americans

Actually, it's probably because America is the most influential and powerful state in the world today. Just a thought...

	15-05-2002 16:53									#37
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Screw this "I'm never using that one" attitude. I'll want to try them all out, find their strengths/weaknesses and then come to the decision as to who I want to use more commonly than the rest. Even the ones who I haven't found that interesting at all would be worth my time to try out. It is just a game after all.

	15-05-2002 17:16									#38
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How about we make up imaginary UU before deciding since they are one of the most important reasons for choosing. That way people can say which of the civs that may or may not be in the game they will not play based on UU that may or may not be in the game
Miznia, tell me more about these "watermelons" . . .

	15-05-2002 20:48									#39
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Please, remember that:

- Civ III covers from 4000 BC to 2050 AC, not only the last 60 years of "american glory".

- At 300 AC, a "huge-huge city" was Rome, that had 1.000.000 of persons. Actually a "huge-huge city" is Tokio with 35.000.000 .

- At 1450 AC (950 years since rome), a "huge-huge city" was Tenochtitlán, that had 1.000.000 of persons. So, you can see that the actual "huge-huge cities" only appeared at the last 200 years.

- At 500 BC, a "menacious civilization" were the one that had more than 100.000 persons.

So, don't say "pathetic" to civs like Khmer, Phoenicians and others of these times. Phoenicians fought with Rome, remember this.

About Phoenicians... Romans are Lacians yes? Actually Italians, yes? The mother of problems with names is the RIDICULOUS FIRAXIAN IDEA that a civ architecture/people/culture can change across the time, but the CIV NAME not! So, don't bore with this, add this evolution with another PATCH and finally put a "Ask for Customize Civ on Era Change" at startup screen.

	16-05-2002 00:10									#40
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quote: Originally posted by The Eliminator Put it this way, the only reason that there is an American civ in the game is because 80% of the people who buy the game are Americans. Another 19% are Canadians, so by default Canada should be a civ as well. [...]

This estimation is total nonsense. You heavily underestimate other gaming Markets like Korea and Europe.
However, I think you are generally right as far as the reason for including the Americans is concerned.

No offence, but the canadians shouldn't be a civ in my opinion. They are relatively unimportant.

	16-05-2002 23:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Miznia Damn, nobody's winning this poll! a Philadelphian civ!

Note my location.

If the editor allows adding new civs without replacing old ones, I'll add a Pennsylvanian civ. William Penn as leader. Industrious and Scientific. UU... Pioneer... a 2/5/1 musketman.

I really do hate this poll actually. It's pretty flame-inducing and useless. I would consider it spam if I were a moderator (not a jab at the mods).

	18-05-2002 00:23									#42
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quote: I really do hate this poll actually. It's pretty flame-inducing and useless. I would consider it spam if I were a moderator (not a jab at the mods).

As far as useless, I think the results have just proven uninteresting. I'm really surprised that only two civs clear 10% (if I recall).

I found all the discussion on this thread to be really valuable. I hope Firaxis takes note. I am grateful to all participants so far.

Miznia

	18-05-2002 00:43									#43
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Wow, so many third-string Civs here, its hard to pick just one!

I don't mind if people want to play these for a different feel or because they have some affinity for the civ, but I'd hate to play against some of these "civiliations". The problem crops up when you select your opponents and leave them at RANDOM. Unless you hand pick them all, your gonna get stuck with a few of these guys kicking around bugging you for a world map.

Catering to regions of the world in a fantastical sceme to increase sales? fiddlesticks!

	18-05-2002 04:05									#44
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quote: Originally posted by XarXo So, don't say "pathetic" to civs like Khmer, Phoenicians and others of these times. Phoenicians fought with Rome, remember this.

No, they didn´t. When Carthage had it´s ass whipped in the 3 Punic Wars between 265 BC-146 BC (despite Hannibals brilliant "elephants-over-the-alps attack on Rome) they´d been an independent state for several hundred years. Phonecia had been in decline since Nebucadnezzar conquered Tyre in 573 BC (thus making Cathage an independent city state) Alexander the Greats conquest of Tyre in 332 BC was the final nail in the coffin for Phonecian culture.

quote: About Phoenicians... Romans are Lacians yes? Actually Italians, yes? The mother of problems with names is the RIDICULOUS FIRAXIAN IDEA that a civ architecture/people/culture can change across the time, but the CIV NAME not! So, don't bore with this, add this evolution with another PATCH and finally put a "Ask for Customize Civ on Era Change" at startup screen.

I like that

	18-05-2002 07:07									#45
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quote: Romans are Lacians yes? Actually Italians, yes?

Well, kinda, maybe, maybe not. There was a lot of cross breeding. The North went to the Lombards and the South to the Normans after the fall of the Empire on the Italian penninsula, and after that a lot of intermarriage, so that today's Italians really aren't Romans.

	18-05-2002 08:09									#46
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2 things mentioned in this thread that make me want to stab myself:

19% of the game's sales are NOT Canadian. Maybe if EVERY SINGLE PERSON (all 10 million of them) in canada bought a copy, it might be a significant number. But I'd bet that Germany, Korea, UK, etc., have all sold more copies of Civ 3 than Canada.

Also, Tokyo doesn't have 35 million people. it has 25 million. Hey, thats a difference almost the size of canada!

Miznia: Well, seeing as how Firaxis was able to come up with an exact number (8), they've probably already decided on them, and are working on programming them in before the XP is released.

	18-05-2002 08:44									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Sioux, Hebrews, Canadians, Khmer, Ethiopians, Nubians, Dutch, Polynesians and Koreans. Pretty uninteresting civs all of them when you can play Vikings (Röde Orm) or Celts (Slaine)

If "arians" was a choise, would you play as them?

You seem to dislike non-north-european civs.

	18-05-2002 12:52									#48
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Not dislike, I just don´t find them interesting. Yet my favourite Civ3-civ is Babylonians or Persians. They´re not from Northern Europe

Poor trolling attempt, Siro...

	18-05-2002 13:01									#49
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This whole thread is one gigantic troll.

	18-05-2002 17:14									#50
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Yes, I suppose it is...

	19-05-2002 03:40									#51
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quote: Yet my favourite Civ3-civ is Babylonians or Persians

Ah, two civilizations known to enslave Jews in the BC era, huh?

Anyhoo, I think the whole point of this thread is stupid.

Today, what means anything is the traits and not the name and so on.

	19-05-2002 18:34									#52
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Yes, this is also why I always play the Nazis in Civ2´s WWII scenario... Did I mention I also like the romans?

Extremly stupid thread this...

	19-05-2002 21:26									#53
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This is rather un-important, but I figure I should back my country up Mikhail, while true that 19% of Civ3 sales aren't in Canada, our country has a population of 30 Million, not 10M. Our country has a population about that of Tokyo's, not a small fraction of that city's population.

And back on topic, yes, all that matters is the civ specific traits. I'll play the "Watermelons" if they are Scientific and Religious and their unique unit is a Rifleman with extra attack. The name is really unimportant. They might as well just let you pick two traits at start up, or have a random civ generator.

	19-05-2002 21:46									#54
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10 million, 30 million, it's all the same

Ukraine has 50 million, and the 20th largest military in the world. Larger even than the United Kingdom. Gemany, France, and Russia are the only European countries stronger than we. They're all considered 'great civilizations' by Firaxis too.

Well, that's my nationalistic pride there. Ukraine should be a civ.

	20-05-2002 01:54									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Mikhail 10 million, 30 million, it's all the same Ukraine has 50 million, and the 20th largest military in the world. Larger even than the United Kingdom. Gemany, France, and Russia are the only European countries stronger than we. They're all considered 'great civilizations' by Firaxis too. Well, that's my nationalistic pride there. Ukraine should be a civ.

Large poorly trained and equiped armies almost always lose to smaller armies that are better trained and equiped. Did Iraq's million man army help it in the Gulf war? Did Argentina's 4 to 1 advantage allow it to keep the Falklands?

No offense but, I'd bet my money on the Brits any day. I can't say the same about the Ukrainian army...

	20-05-2002 02:56									#56
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I know its been awhile, but the first comment bashed the Hewbrews because they would be stuck with the worst UU in the game: how about a improved Swordsman, the Zealot @ [3.2.2]?

	20-05-2002 18:27									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Miznia As far as useless, I think the results have just proven uninteresting. I'm really surprised that only two civs clear 10% (if I recall). I found all the discussion on this thread to be really valuable. I hope Firaxis takes note. I am grateful to all participants so far. Miznia

I've seen this same discussion many times before. There have been numerous threads in this forum with the topic... "America doesn't belong" or "Why isn't Canada in the game?" or "God, the Iriquois are a stupid choice" or "Why can't we have the Arabs?" or "What were they thinking when the Zulu were included?". And then one of my "countrymen" comes in and proclaims US superiority from the rooftops and I want to punch him in the nose.

I don't object to the discussion of civs, but the poll is rather flammable.

	20-05-2002 19:34									#58
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any civ whose history doesn't interest me

	21-05-2002 07:11									#59
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quote: Originally posted by TheBigTurkey Let's go Canada! Make sure to add the French-Canadians too. I'll make sure to play them, and screw them over for a good laugh. But, on a serious note, Celts, Vikings, Sioux, Hebrews, Canadians, Khmer, Dutch, and Polynesians shouldn't be included, because they are RELATIVELY unimportant for the world. Peace out.

Actually anyone that's into the conspiracy stuff, know the Hebrews have already won and it's not even 2050

	22-05-2002 06:45									#60
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I would use them all. I don't think I have played all the civs yet, but I am getting there. I think it can be educational, esp. when MP is coming out, to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the various civs and UU's/other units to help better plan strategies to be used to increase your odds of victory.