24-05-2002 00:37									#31
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We have a Church of Scientology in Racine. It holds a gathering every saturday. Its right next door to St.Ritas! My church!

Of course, very few people actually go there on sundays when they hold there gatherings. Maybe only 4-5 cars.


L.Ron Hubbard thought it up. Read Dianetic's. Its about freeing the reactive mind, and what not. This is where the idea of Scientology came from.

	24-05-2002 00:41									#32
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I heard they have strange and alluring practices to bring you into the group. Like once I read in watchtower they'll have the younger women initiate 3somes with men, to get them coming back and get them to agree to go too Scientology studies. Which I also hear has an element of brainwashing in the studies. Its a wierd belief/initiation. Germany, actually......all of europe has banned it.

	24-05-2002 01:13									#33
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As my sig line shows, I have a dim view of Scientology.

Basically, it's a "religion" where in order to advance, you have to pay out ever increasing amounts of cash.

I truly wonder how celebrities sleep at night. They can't be as high as they are in the hierarchy and not know it's a scam.

Also, IIRC, Nicole Kidman is not a Scientologist, and I would be very surprised if that didn't have something to do with her divorce.

Simply put: Scientology is a cult. And it is obscene how these people in the public eye defend it.

	24-05-2002 01:16									#34
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory I heard they have strange and alluring practices to bring you into the group. Like once I read in watchtower they'll have the younger women initiate 3somes with men, to get them coming back and get them to agree to go too Scientology studies. Which I also hear has an element of brainwashing in the studies. Its a wierd belief/initiation. Germany, actually......all of europe has banned it.

Damn, even I would go along to their meetings if that was the payment

And BTW, why were you reading watchtower?

	24-05-2002 01:29									#35
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David Floyd. A lot of the information is disputed, regardless. Even if it is true, the fact that I'm protraying them in a bad light will allow them to attempt to prosecute me for slander. The legal action in itself is pretty scary, even if I win. I think I would win since:

1/Anything thats given as opinion will be said to be opinion.
2/ I will verify my sources to the best of my ability.
3/ The issue is a matter of 'public interest' and protected by UK law.

FG: You read Watchtower?
Dianetics is a bunch of sub-Jungian irrrational bollocks. The Author's lack of ability makes it about as clear and useful as Mein Kampf. Hubbard was a clear Paranoid Schitzophrenic, while we're not quite sure about Hitler, even!

Vetlegion: I think the publishing laws are the same for the internet, so I could still go to court. However my unpublished material can indicate that:

1/ The amount of subjects 'cleared' (the perfect stage of man) has declined from the 1979 high of 1330 to less than 100 this year.

2/ UK (contracted) membership has dropped by around 48% and is now around 5,000 members (I can't really prove that at the moment, but I'll do my best to get the appropriate figures

3/ They're storing weapons at Old Saint Hill. This is possible, but again unproven (I've got insider information, I'm hoping to get photos!)

4/ They've gotten alot stricter over here, Scn/UK used to be quite a mild cult. Now they're forcing people to stay at Saint hill for weeks on end, are applying the Isolation treatment (the one used on Lisa Macpherson) over here.

Remember I haven't published this

I think I might be able to fight it out if my paper agrees to help me. Their suggestion is that I do it freelance, they'll publish it (as will several other magazines) but I'll have to accept responsibility. This I don't like. I'm sick of this business already.

Sweet jesus, I hope their harrassment doesn't continue.

Last edited by Evil Knevil on 24-05-2002 at 01:59

	24-05-2002 01:55									#36
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They're suggestion is that I do it freelance

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!

	24-05-2002 02:22									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Damn, even I would go along to their meetings if that was the payment And BTW, why were you reading watchtower?

I get WT for free, delivered. And yes, 3somes to ininiate men are common....but just to initiate. I have heard this from several places. Sex is used to lure people in. (young men)

	24-05-2002 02:52									#38
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don't give in to these bastards knevil

	24-05-2002 03:16									#39
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If they offered me a threesome I'd give in (or at least give that impression)

	24-05-2002 04:03									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Really? Do you live in the village? I might have bumped into you by accident when I was there last week! Can I stay with you next week? (just joking Do you have any information about Saint Hill, like noises, or weirdos or gunshots, like I've heard about?

I'm too far away to hear anything but the rumours...

	24-05-2002 05:56									#42
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Is Scientology legal in UK? I think it's banned here in Finland... In school we studied it a bit, and it was taught to us that it's completely a fraud, shameless and ruthless scam. We also got to see maybe 30-40min document about it, former members were int it etc. They had these weird machines which they used to measure something out of themselves.. energylevel or something, can't recall.. it cost like maybe $10k and you had to have two of them, in case it brakes down.. funny indeed.

My opinion is you should run the story, dig deep, and expose their shameless fraud. That they make people addicted and crazy, just to get money out of them. About that harrasment.. what can they really do? Start taping your phone, so you get it on tape when they call you. Get the backround of that lady calling you. When the going gets tough the tough gets going .

Personally i'm very hard against cults etc that are obviously fake and damage people. You should contact people from other countries to take joint-operation . I'd be willing, but i think we don't have any of them here. I'd really like to do some agentstuff and go into their classes and make them believe i'm their new sucker, just to expose what they do and how. If only someone would pay me .

don't give up to harrasment! When they do it, it's obvious they doing something suspicious, and it needs to be exposed, so no new people will get hurt.

	24-05-2002 06:02									#43
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omg i was wrong, they're here too! I want to go and kick their nuts.

	24-05-2002 06:17									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka omg i was wrong, they're here too! I want to go and kick their nuts.

	24-05-2002 06:46									#45
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L. Ron Hubbard was claimed to be dead at one point to evade a supoena for a Congresional investigation. He came back to life a while later and then died again after he started that Battlefield Earth series. Most of which published after he died the second time. This time the death seems a bit more permanent than the first.

There is an affidavit out on the web from Hubbards son about Scientology and the faked death. He apparently wasn't sure the second reported death was a real one.

Found it.

http://www.lisatrust.net/legal/affidavit-DeWolf.htm

Lots more on this link which is where I got the first one from

http://www.lisatrust.net/legal/declarations.htm

	24-05-2002 15:20									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Is Scientology legal in UK? I think it's banned here in Finland... In school we studied it a bit, and it was taught to us that it's completely a fraud, shameless and ruthless scam. We also got to see maybe 30-40min document about it, former members were int it etc. They had these weird machines which they used to measure something out of themselves.. energylevel or something, can't recall.. it cost like maybe $10k and you had to have two of them, in case it brakes down.. funny indeed. My opinion is you should run the story, dig deep, and expose their shameless fraud. That they make people addicted and crazy, just to get money out of them. About that harrasment.. what can they really do? Start taping your phone, so you get it on tape when they call you. Get the backround of that lady calling you. When the going gets tough the tough gets going . Personally i'm very hard against cults etc that are obviously fake and damage people. You should contact people from other countries to take joint-operation . I'd be willing, but i think we don't have any of them here. I'd really like to do some agentstuff and go into their classes and make them believe i'm their new sucker, just to expose what they do and how. If only someone would pay me . don't give up to harrasment! When they do it, it's obvious they doing something suspicious, and it needs to be exposed, so no new people will get hurt.

The irony of it is, this is what Christianity started out like in Roman society. It is amazing how, over time, it has become legitimised...

	24-05-2002 22:35									#47
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PH, you seem be a reasonably smart bloke, what do you think I should do?



Update]: Another phonecall to the office today, thankfully not at home, asked me to stop talking to certain ex-members of UK Scientology since they're 'mentally unbalanced' and would divulge 'trade secrets'. She was really nasty about Jon Atack, despite the fact that I've never even talked to him -- I thought he was dead! She said contact with these enemies of Scientology, automatically makes me an enemy.

I said:

1/ Under UK law, it is never a crime to talk to anybody (anymore not even presumed terrorists, the 1990 criminal justice act was repealed recently).

2/ If Scientology is a religion, then why does it have trade secrets?

Eventually she said something like "Conversation with you would be a waste of time.....but could you please fax over a list of your sources when you're done with your report....".

To this I said no way.

She said she'd be in touch again.


So now I'm an enemy, a suppressive person (SP) woo-hoo!!

This makes me want to fight, I think. Still, if I start getting phonecalls in the night, I might reconsider.

	24-05-2002 22:44									#48
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People are idiots. That's all I have to say about this.

Carry on, and good luck.

-Arrian

	24-05-2002 22:54									#49
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EK, I know what I would do, which is go ahead and do it and be prepared for having to deal with these f****rs for a long time. If you have any pretentions of being a great journalist, that's gonna happen sooner or later. I'd talk it over with your wife and decide whether or not Scientologist harrasment is something you wish to fight for a good chunk of your life.

Don't freelance the piece. They'll bury you with lawyers.

	25-05-2002 01:38									#50
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Evil Knevil:

You're taking on a cult whose power lies in its secrecy. As you're discovering, they don't like it when journalists and others try to rip away the dark veils they keep wrapped around their warped cult. This may not seem like much, but you have my support as a fellow journalist and as an ordinary Joe Public sort of guy.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a planetary military offensive against Scientology. They deserve to crash and burn. All they care about is money and hurting/warping people.

Gatekeeper

	25-05-2002 01:51									#51
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EK, I would go for it. Just be ready (really ready) for the fight. Oh and try to document as much of their harrasment as you can. For instance trick this lady into sending you a written document with her threats or demands. That will be great to publish. Try to blow the whole thing up for maxiumum publicity. Make it your ticket to a more prominent byline.

I hope you have done a thorough Nexus and library search. I'm often UNDERimpressed by research methods of journalists. You seemed a lilttle shaky in your knowledge of background info at the beginning of this thread. (But seemed more up to speed later.)

FYI: I saw a pretty decent (unauthorized) biography of Hubbard in the book store about 4 years ago. Can't remember the title, but a search should come up with it. It has info on how Hubbard came up with the idea of forming a religion. Also has some juicy stuff about other silly stuff he did. Failure as a USN officer, etc.

	25-05-2002 01:54									#52
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Gatekeeper, what is your status as a journalist? And EK, also. Where do y'all stand in the food chain.

I'm pretty impressed...good job.

	25-05-2002 02:19									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison The irony of it is, this is what Christianity started out like in Roman society. It is amazing how, over time, it has become legitimised...

Yes, I recall tales of the early Christians enticing popular Circus stars of the day to join them, and their thorough knowledge of the Roman legal system was legendary. And their methods are so similar--Christians would preach that desire for money was not important, and Scientology takes care of that for you.

Spot on!

	25-05-2002 02:20									#54
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evil kvevil another little tid bit of dirty laundrery that you maybe don't know? is that the members of scientology are reqquired to sign a contract which allegednly binds their soul to that cult for a number of millenia (2 if IIRC). They believe in recarnation too.

of course it's all about the

	25-05-2002 02:24									#55
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I say go after them. You'll have our support. Hmm...maybe I should make the villains in the next movie i'm planning scientologists...

	25-05-2002 03:19									#56
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GP:

I'm not among the "big fish," so to speak, when it comes to journalism. Been out of journalism school for four years now and number myself among the "rank-and-file" reporters, copy editors and whatnot — basically, the people who work the trenches and put the paper out on a daily basis.

AFAIK, there are no Scientology chapters in my neck of the woods. EK ... would you be able to get ahold of the Time personnel who worked on their Scientology article? They might be able to lead you to even more sources.

Gatekeeper

	25-05-2002 03:21									#57
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EK- what you're getting is verging on criminal harassment. Go to the police, get an injunction and print it. It'll make interesting news, and it'll be fun seeing them try to use the courts to silence a judicial verdict.

	25-05-2002 03:22									#58
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It would also be interesting, as a side hit, to compile a list of countries where scientology is legal and unhindered and where it is not legal or not so unhindered. That should be fairly easy to do. (just send the same pre-written fax to all embassies and maybe call them to let them know you did). Some european countries would suffice. (and of course US - Canada)

	25-05-2002 03:24									#59
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EK:

Also, that woman who keeps phoning the office is nothing more than the vanguard of Scientology's harrassment forces. She's on point, but you can be guaranteed she's got goons behind her who'll resort to less-than-ethical (and possibly illegal) methods of trying to shut you down.

Gatekeeper

	25-05-2002 03:27									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil PH, you seem be a reasonably smart bloke, what do you think I should do?

I'd say blow them sky high. I'd even go as far as calling it a civic duty to expose these charlatans and the lies they stand for. Be truthful, because quite honestly, you don't have to be anything other here to expose the lunacy of this organisation.

If they do try to sue, it would be the publisher who gets it, surely?

And go for that injunction if they are harrassing you. Besides if you publish that story, it looks good, like they were trying to silence you. And keep records of everything like this just in case.

Waste 'em fella!