27-05-2002 21:11									#31
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they only have two that we can see. what if washington ahs pikemen behind those city walls? would our crusaders, or even dragoons stand a chance?

	27-05-2002 21:37									#32
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If we're going to be that way why don't we just completely halt our attacks until we get armor (sarcasm)? We have to attack with overwhelming numbers of units; of course the defender has the advantage.

	28-05-2002 00:12									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq 2. Build many barracks and then crusaders (and later dragoons). As veterans, they are almost as strong as cavalry. We could conceivably have a sizeable force ready before the AI reaches gunpowder.

But vet units become "green" units after transformation by Leo's Workshop !

	28-05-2002 00:22									#34
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Good campaign, Prez.
For the following, as main cities are walled, let us not waste our brilliant units in front attacks.
As communist, bribing is not a bad thing if it is for a good goal !
The aim may be to conquer Egyptian Capital, by sabotage of the walls with diplomats, then attacking by crusaders and, after conquest, bribing their poor remaining cities.
For Americans, we need more forces, with high attack power (I like progress to cavalry in that situation) .

	28-05-2002 01:19									#35
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Peering (cautiously) into our immediate future, I foresee Diplomats taking out the Walls, Cannons assaulting the cities, followed by a wave of Mounted units (whatever kind we have). If/when we are offered Communism itself, I will go for it to get Spies (they are far more effective than Dips).

I expect we will be reducing defenders with Ironclads, occupying cities with Mounted units, and defending them with Riflemen soon. When we have Cavalry, with Cannons we should be able to take cities at will.

We should make sure to eliminate our enemies one at a time (for now, maybe 2 at a time later) to prevent re-growth. I note that our game rules are that destroyed civs will be re-created, so I would leave one weak city in each civ until we can destroy them all at once later.

	28-05-2002 02:03									#36
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker If we're going to be that way why don't we just completely halt our attacks until we get armor (sarcasm)? We have to attack with overwhelming numbers of units; of course the defender has the advantage.

i just don't see how an effective campaign can be carried out with our current forces or even lots of our current types of units. the defenders strength is too great right now IMO

	28-05-2002 02:10									#37
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower i just don't see how an effective campaign can be carried out with our current forces or even lots of our current types of units. the defenders strength is too great right now IMO

Rest assured that we will not be attacking cities without some good idea of the defense they have. If we can take them at a reasonable cost, we will. If it takes other methods, we will do that. I hate losing units to no purpose.

	28-05-2002 02:16									#38
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Reducing enemies with ironclads??!! If we're worrying about crusaders having a hard time of it, doesn't it stand to reason that Ironclads, who have 1 less attack, would be even more likely to die?

	28-05-2002 02:20									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq 1. Build hordes of crusaders now, and research our way to cavalry. Leo's Workshop will make our swarm of crusaders (att=5) a swarm of cavalry (att=8). The AI will probably have gunpowder by then, but we will have both strength and numbers.

We could also massproduce twice the amount horsies and upgrade them

	28-05-2002 02:21									#40
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Reducing enemies with ironclads??!! If we're worrying about crusaders having a hard time of it, doesn't it stand to reason that Ironclads, who have 1 less attack, would be even more likely to die?

Ironclads ignore city walls....

	28-05-2002 03:20									#41
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I feel we should not attack them at all. Leave the Americans alone. Negotiate peace with them and make them our Allies. I am sure they will become a strong and very valuable allie. Let us end this bloody conquest of imperialism and focus on trade, the economy, health, life expectancy, and literacy. It is not sufficient that we should be the only civilization in the world.

	28-05-2002 03:25									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Gen. Hancock I feel we should not attack them at all. Leave the Americans alone. Negotiate peace with them and make them our Allies. I am sure they will become a strong and very valuable allie. Let us end this bloody conquest of imperialism and focus on trade, the economy, health, life expectancy, and literacy. It is not sufficient that we should be the only civilization in the world.

allies....
sniff...with the AI...and how are we going to do such a thing???


Shade(I really can't remember the last time I had even 1 allie and I play 2.42 not even MGE)

	28-05-2002 13:05									#43
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quote: Originally posted by shade allies...with the AI...and how are we going to do such a thing???

Effectively, with all AI civs continuously uncooperative at least, alliance is largely unreallistic !

quote: (I really can't remember the last time I had even 1 allie and I play 2.42 not even MGE)

How play OCC without allies ?

	28-05-2002 13:59									#44
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I'm quite a new citizen (been looking at this for a while, but not posted), but maybe I can offer my advice?

You say you're worried about the pikemen that might be in walled cities. Presumably, there would be attack units as well? I propose this..

Several archers (or equivalent) fortify themselves in a square each adjacent to the city. After a few turns, the cities attack units will have attacked, and hopefully lost (provided the archers are veteran). After this, the weakened archers are withdrawn, and immediately a new group of archers is brought in, to the same positions. This continues until the enemy units stop attacking from within the city - this means their attack units are dead.

We then move two settlers in to one of the squares a fortified archer occupies. They both build a fortress, so it will be built very quickly. The other archers withdraw, and all fortify in this new fortress. That has taken care (hopefully) of the cities attack capabilities.

After this, the settlers move round the city, building fortresses at strategically placed points so enemy units can not escape, and new ones can not get through the gaps. The archers then fortify these new fortresses (probably 3 fortresses in total). The city is now completely under siege.


Finally, to take the city, diplomats take out the city walls, and the huge horde of crusaders someone suggested we build will attack. However, it would probably be far better if diplomats took out these buildings:
City Walls, Happiness buildings (Temple, Colloseam, Cathedral etc).

After that, the city should, hopefully go into disorder, and it can be bribed more easily. I'm not sure about the state of our finances, but maybe its time for a tax increase?



Just my thoughts

	28-05-2002 14:20									#45
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It sounds pretty neat and all but by then we'll probably have mobile warfare or something.

	28-05-2002 14:28									#46
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lol

Let me see..


Turn 1: Disembark archer to left of city; Disembark archer to right of city

Turn 2: Fortify archers

Turn 3: Collect settlers and leave in ship ready to disembark

Turn 4: Disembark new archers (presumably the first two would have been attacked) and disembark settlers.

Turn 5: Fortify new archers; Settlers build fortress.

Five turns and we've got a manned fortress next to their city. If we used 4 settlers, we could have two manned fortresses in 5 turns.

After that, its just a case of landing a few diplomats, destroying their buildings, and bribing. Easy

	28-05-2002 14:32									#47
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That will take more than five turns. We must build and/or transport all the units. It would take quite a lot of planning to make it work that smoothly. We'll see if the ministry of defence is competent enough for that one.

	28-05-2002 14:37									#48
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Give me a junior position.. Commander of Millitary Planning or something.. and I'll *make* it happen. Where do I go to get elected?

	28-05-2002 15:54									#49
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quote: Originally posted by JCP How play OCC without allies ?

Now I recall...I played an OCC 1 time=> so that was the last time I had allies.(but I really don't like the begging part of OCC )

The suggested plan would at least take 20 turns(transporting those units would at least take as long)

Shade

	28-05-2002 17:24									#50
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1. Now that we have Adam Smith, we should be creating massive infrastructure of (free!) 1GP city improvements (markets, libraries) in our core cities.
2. Build a Diplomat army to pull down city walls.
3. We laid the foundation with Lighthouse and Magellan. Tech goal should be straight to Ironclads!

The biggest mistake would be to press the attack before ready. Vet ironclads and diplomats will do the job for us as long as we prepare properly.

Great job, cavebear!

	28-05-2002 19:10									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Bear Give me a junior position.. Commander of Millitary Planning or something.. and I'll *make* it happen. Where do I go to get elected?

The position of Minister of War (aka Supreme Military Commander) already exists for the planning part of our battles.

You just missed the regular monthly self-nomination deadline; as you can see from other posts, the actual elections are in progress. We do this toward the end of each month. So, stick around, offer suggestions, build a good reputation, and run for Minister of War next month. It's a good idea to be a participating Citizen for a while anyway, just to get a good idea of what the Cabinet Members do.

	31-05-2002 02:09									#52
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I agree with -Jrabbit.
The library and market place improvements would be my first goal so that we can get the allready impressive 4 turn tech down to a three or even a two. the market places will provide for any future rushbuilds we will need in the fallen cities of our enemies, as well as providing more luxuries to our people.

Build attack forces in cities which allready contain the "free" improvements so that we may take those american cities.

This is all based on our city production, as for our attack force why not have them take a few of the egyptians out while the opportunity presents its self? Lets not forget that the only purpose for AI is to stop you the player and it can quickly change track from a puny imp to a marginally well defended nation with potential to be a dificult conuest.

	31-05-2002 04:12									#53
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Our diplomats can reveal the dialectic to the proletariat of the other lands and help them revolt against their capitalist oppressors.

	31-05-2002 05:31									#54
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you mean incite revolt? i bet that would be too expensive this close to the enemies' capitals