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dervish
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on Desktop PC, Monarchy
May 2002
time: 10:19
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quote:
Originally posted by ranskaldan
Yeah, that's the point. That's why i wouldn't say that languages correspond well to ethnicity - there has been too many cases of ethnic groups or individuals changing languages due to conquest, assimilation, migration, etc. |
Which means what? That language is more correspondent to civilization than to ethnicity? And we still have problem of differentiating civilization from culture and that from nation and that from civilization, which you can find on "Civilization: culture or nation" thread. I am confused too, I don't know which one is which one.
We live in such imperfect underdone world!!
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sabrewolf
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turicum, helvetistan
Jun 2002
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by dervish
You are right. This ethnic tree can be triggered to action only, and should be, to my mind, when your population becomes sort of unhappy with your rule and wants to separate and secede from your tyranic Empire or whatever rule for a number of reasons (here you can throw any reason thinkable and unthinkable within the game framework). And then on the other hand they hate to join your neighbours, so they wouldn't join them either, well, unless they have very high culture compared to yours. So, if your neighbours are not so advanced in culture and in science, and they are pissed off by your rule, they secede and form a nation of their own with coulpe of cities on your border. I think there were cases like that in the past. Of course you will try to do everything to win their favour back, here the ethnic tree could also be of value, it will recommend new names of your confederate nation or whatever. |
well, that's a great idea! and would be a wonderful change to the game... make it more realistic:
no culture flipping... more like an independence declaration. (lots of) military units can prevent them from going, but that causes even more riots and unhappiness (not just in the city). i'd call it 'suppressor weariness' (à la weariness). take tibet, palestine and other countries for example. occupation doesn't make it better.
each civilization can have 2-3 possible nationalities the independence fighters then get, best if that historicly based. it wouldn't have to be like the examples in the thread. it could also be something like algerians get independent from france (even though they aren't french at all). etc.
how about proposing dervish's idea to firaxis for an update or PTW?
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sabrewolf
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turicum, helvetistan
Jun 2002
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by kring
The US, India, China (turn of last century and late this century), E Pakistan; are good examples of how strong military presence may not prevent rebellion. Sometimes strong military presence is actually more of an incentive to rebel than less. Check out the USA Constitution: No quartering of soldiers in your home, outside of a bad war situation. Why? Because it was forced on them before independence.
Good job, Dervish and others. Keep up the impressive work. |
yep, you're right in that point. the great british empire controlled half of the world, but englang itself is geographically small... so it was just a matter of time until they'd loose their influence. same with rome... they controlled more or less all of the (to them) known world... but some centuries later rome fell...
but i meant my comment more in smaller ranges e.g. the basks in spain. or look on over to east-timor. they wanted independence, malaysia (or at least pro-malay paramilitary) suppressed the voices with brute force... but now after some time they broke free.
i know, my examples aren't that great, but my point is:
"firaxis should add independence declaration instead of culture flipping (or even take both)"
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dervish
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on Desktop PC, Monarchy
May 2002
time: 10:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
I've seen plenty, including one site that actually listed all known amerindian languages by language group, and the number of known speakers of that language. It even listed extict tongues. Some were really sad - 5 speakers, the youngest 70 years old, that sort of thing. Others are doing fine, with thousands of native speakers and many more with 2nd language knowledge. |
Well, could you give us a link to them. It would be very interesting, you know.
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dervish
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on Desktop PC, Monarchy
May 2002
time: 10:19
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quote:
Originally posted by sabrewolf
how about proposing dervish's idea to firaxis for an update or PTW? |
Thank you, mate. The truth is that the country you come from actually is a very vivid example of how some Germans, French and Italian Helvetians forged new confederation - Switzerland after being kinda dissappointed by their respective main France, Germany and Italy rulers (correct me, if I am wrong). I think it is an excellent example of co-existence of so many nations in one country.
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dervish
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on Desktop PC, Monarchy
May 2002
time: 10:19
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Hmm..... It's very interesting. Thank you, sabrewolf, for this piece of information, frankly, I didn't know about that.
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Anodyne
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Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:19
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Oh, and the idea of ethnicity is great! So far I've sort of added it to Civ2 when I was playing it;
When ever I would get an advanced tribe or a settler out of a goody box, I would place a sign (§, ", #, ¤, etc...) after that city to indicate that the settler / tribe would be of another ethnicity, and when that city produced another settler that ended up building a city, that city would also be marked with the same sign...
Heh, I guess it was a bit nerdy, but at least I got some more fun out of an old game 
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07-06-2002 08:45
I'll take a little time to try to find them again. With luck, I'll post...
My God!! Got screwed up with putting more maps on the first page
Of course, they might not have such a huge impact on world history, but it pisses me off everytime someone thinks (hey, I'm not saying you think so, I can see that you obviously don't) they would be inferior because of that. At least I would be extremely interested in them! 
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