04-06-2002 14:02									#31
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hm, i kinda expected marx to be yoda and lenin as obi wan. molotov is perfect for chewbaka role and kalinin is a cool C3PO

	04-06-2002 14:51									#32
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This is just bizzare

	04-06-2002 20:52									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander You should be taking care of business in the same way closer to home.

Like what, bombing the US embassies?

	04-06-2002 20:55									#34
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I'm beginning to feel like the accounts UR is receiving of the conflict aren't rooted in reality. The Pakistanis aren't exactly the innocent victims...

As I said numerous times, India has failed to provide any believable evidence that links any of the so called terrorist acts with the Pakistan government.

They just strike me as a bunch of cheap bastards taking advantage of all this "terrorism" talks.

I don't see them being democratic at all, playing fast and loose with people's lives.

	04-06-2002 21:07									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Exactly... Any bomb that hits Pakistan will have fallout go over India because of how the winds blow.

Isn't there a significant mountain chain on the border of Pakistan and India?

If so, how high is their altitude, and wouldn't this prevent the winds from blowing over the mountains, and thus, blowing the fall out back to India??

	05-06-2002 00:11									#36
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no. you should REALLY check your geography.

	05-06-2002 00:12									#37
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*applause for MrFun*

	05-06-2002 01:35									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion *applause for MrFun*

shut up


But there is a difference between not knowing something and not quite remembering something.

I was just not sure -- so rather than assume something that I was not sure of, I asked.

So hire Imran for your lawyer and sue my ass off!!



Times like this when I wish I had a geographic atlas book handy.
I know the world's geography overall --- this part I could not recall the terrain and altitude.

	05-06-2002 01:58									#39
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" I , like, know Geography, and stuff, But I sometimes I confuse certain Oceans with dry land . Other than that , I RULE Geography."



amazing comics, btw.

	05-06-2002 02:08									#40
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@ Dal.

I think also the Pakistanis have a better position (in who to support), because Musharraff has been constantly wanting to sit down and talk, but Vajpayee keeps on rejecting it (until today I think).

	05-06-2002 02:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti " I , like, know Geography, and stuff, But I sometimes I confuse certain Oceans with dry land . Other than that , I RULE Geography." amazing comics, btw.

There's the Pacific Mountain, and the Rocky Ocean, right?



But anyway, now I got my answer about the border of India and Pakistan.

	05-06-2002 03:36									#42
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Imran : This is a false pretence, and it seems that Jack Straw went with the Indians , at his latest visit to New Delhi.

now Geography question. everyone's allowed to participate , except Mr. Fun.

Where is Delhi?

	05-06-2002 03:53									#43
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Well, there's a chance the Indians will try to eat the nukes the Pakis dish out, calmly taking their losses - it really doesn't even put a dent in their demographics anyway - and walk over Pakistan conventionally. In which case the can run the fourth reich there for a decade or so without anybody saying a word.

	05-06-2002 04:14									#44
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There is no way India is not going to launch nukes if it gets hit. It would be a great loss of national pride (for them), even if they eventually did beat Pakistan conventionally.

	05-06-2002 04:31									#45
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Oh, I agree the'll be serious pressure to retaliate. But then they could possibly be "persuaded" to nobly abstain if the US gives them carte blanche to stalinize Pakistan conventionally and pours a serious amount of tax dollars into India as compensation.

They could run an extermination program in Pakistan for a decade and still beat their chest about how they've been wronged.

	05-06-2002 04:36									#46
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They won't be persuaded. Believe me. The leaders know if they don't launch, they are out in the next election.

	05-06-2002 04:42									#47
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Perhaps they'll simply take the cash and go. The next government can then blame them and cash in on the compensations.

And I'm sure living grandly in, say, the Bahamas, with a $100M bank account to draw on beats being a Indian cabinet member anyday.

Not to mention all the articles they can write in liberal media about the importance of restraint and containment. If they play their cards right there might even be a Nobel Peace Prize in there somewhere.

But, ultimately, I agree with you. I think the'll go for the instant parking-lot option too.

	05-06-2002 04:46									#48
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As I understood it, Pakistan would use their nukes first against the troops India is massing on the border, and which will be used for an invasion + military basis. So this is
1) a diffrent quality than nuking cities moraly speaking. If india would respond with nuking cities, they had the "moral disadvantage" so to speak.
2) I would expect they'd be able to kill enough Indian troops and material with nukes, with the result that India cant win conventional.

	05-06-2002 04:55									#49
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That is the intriguing thing Tom... how would the world react to nukes being used tactically, against military units, as opposed to cities. Would it cause the same moral revulsion? That is something that is very, very hard to answer.

	05-06-2002 06:09									#50
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quote: Well, there's a chance the Indians will try to eat the nukes the Pakis dish out, calmly taking their losses - it really doesn't even put a dent in their demographics anyway - and walk over Pakistan conventionally. In which case the can run the fourth reich there for a decade or so without anybody saying a word.

Yes, but there is a catch in here: who would be risking getting his ass nuked for the sake of the fatherland? Suppose that the govt itself has enough bunkers to hide in, however the indian government is supported by it's national bourgeoisie who would never risk an A-bomb being dropped on them. It's like living in Washington DC and supporting a nuke attack on China or sth; you will be the first to taste their retaliation, so you're actually suicidal.

The population density in that part of the world is really mind-dazzling. A Hiroshima-type bomb would have many millions of casualties over there.

---------------------------------------

And of course, all you wise strategists who give India the advantage, you forget that, if China gets involved, with nukes or conventionally, the Indians will get crushed. That is what's keeping the balance in the region actually.

	05-06-2002 07:49									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti Imran : This is a false pretence, and it seems that Jack Straw went with the Indians , at his latest visit to New Delhi. now Geography question. everyone's allowed to participate , except Mr. Fun. Where is Delhi?

It's in India dumb ass.

	05-06-2002 08:55									#52
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axi,

I don't see China getting involved. At any rate, both countries are being leaned upon at some summit or another right now.

	05-06-2002 15:06									#53
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UR : are there enough transportation routes through the Himalaya for a possible Chinese invasion of India? hypothetically speaking , of course.

	05-06-2002 15:41									#54
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China already is a player (little known fact: the reds already occupy a fair part of Kashmir), but I don't see them joining this particular party if they can help it. Modern chicom are in it for the cash, not for the glory of Mao.

But if they came in, their main effort would probably be directed ágainst India - so the Pakis might attempt to draw them in by using Chinese Kashmir as an area form which they bombard Indian Kashmir... they already got plenty of experience crossing those lines without having to wait for proper authorization, after all.

Now, that might backfire. While India and China haven't ever been exactly chummy, China has cooled toward Pakistan considerably lately, as their own problems with Muslim separatists have mounted. If the Pakis use nukes first, perhaps China will actually decide to cut its diplomatic losses by coming in on the Indian side, dividing Paki Kashmir and Pakistan with India...

The Chicoms can probably assist the Indians with a real good repression programme as well.

	05-06-2002 16:14									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti now Geography question. everyone's allowed to participate , except Mr. Fun. Where is Delhi?

I'm not sure if it's the right deli, but there's one right down the street from me.

	05-06-2002 16:20									#56
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there are 3 of them. the one, the new and a video store with that name in my neighborhood. has some great actors posters... tottally unknown... i'd rent but i doubt they'd have subtitles... their movie industry is bigger than hollywood you know...

	05-06-2002 18:29									#57
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I'd like to point out that India has more "megapolis" sized cities. If the Pakistanis decided to target population centers the net "visual" impact of the destruction of these cities would be quite demoralizing to the entire Indian nation. Even if the poulation loss was a mere fraction of a percent of the total national population of India the shock value of the loss of New Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, etc., to the Indian people would be tremendous. They might be able to carry on long enough to extract a surrender from the also devastated Pakistan, but there is no telling what the long term political "fallout" would be. My guess is that at least the Congress party would find itself back in power. I think there would be considerable political "fallout" on the world scene too. No major world leader would be able to offer an insincere lackluster expression of regret for such a world tragedy.

	06-06-2002 09:20									#58
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The good news is both sides are now pressured into a peace conference hosted by Russia.

quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti UR : are there enough transportation routes through the Himalaya for a possible Chinese invasion of India? hypothetically speaking , of course.

The terrain on the Chinese side of the border is some of the most difficult in the world, so transportation is possible, but slow. There is no direct rail link AFAIK, maybe a low grade road or two. The area ir deal for defense but hellish to attack (from).

	06-06-2002 11:04									#59
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This is scary, scary stuff.

India, China and Pakistan must have a huge portion of humanity's total population within their borders, I'm wildly guessing [no doubt to be quickly corrected by an alert poster] 2.5 to 3 billion people. Even losing a tiny fraction of this number would still be a huge amount of people and an incalculable tragedy.

	06-06-2002 11:53									#60
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Closer to 2.5

China's at ~1.2, IIRC, India's just over a billion and pakistan has 145 million.