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Dr. Doom1
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Hey:
I see somewhere in a previous posting that someone thanked me for donating prize money. Sorry I did not.
I told Gavrushka early on that if he could make 17,000 gold appear in his kitty on the tourney map, owing to some program glitch, that I would match the prize money.
This appears not to have come to pass, and so neither will my donation.
By the way, I offered to play anyone darned near anytime their first tournament game. But I still haven't had a single offer.
Are we going to get this tournament underway or not?
Dr. Doom
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drAgON1
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Mobile,AL,USA
Mar 2001
time: 05:20
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I feel after playtesting this map that it is not a "proper" world tourney map. The games will all be pretty much the same. There are very few options to winning. The games will be a science race to nukes and jets..then boom. There is no competion for land/resources. Posting a few gaurds will hold off any early attacks,therfore; I do not see any real stratagy. I hope everyone will reconsider a new map. I suggest each civ starts with a rather small island north and south,of course the would have enough goods and land to start the game but not nearly enough to win. Fours to 8 islands in the middle with say 4 to 8 small water passages to the other players side. That way land units could hold off ships if needed. Of couse make those islands in the middle big enough that land war should take place. I would prefer this land war would be needed before modern units because the techs you choose when first going into mordern would make a huge difference.(Better Air UNits? Land? or ships?... first). That way this would keep pressure on defense as well as civ building.Say 2 or so meduim islands kinnda close by the starting islands that are ok.. but will need a lot of terraforming to be great. This gives players options and many ways to win. Should i go for the goodies in the middle and defend those or terraform my close islands and mass an army kinda ealry so i can take what the other has built in the middle? Or it could be a constant war in land and sea in the middle battling to hold on to those game winningg goodies.
NOTE: If nukes are on i really dont think it brings out the best part of the game..however i think this kind of map would be much better suited for nukes then the one we currently have.
Anyway just about what i hope I envisoned in your minds. It would give more options and the game will be alot more interesting.
P.S. Sorry for the late response but i was hoping some one else would say it. Anyway I AM the one to blame for trying to make this tourney interesting and open to options for many different playing styles.THANK YOU for reading i hope to read everyones' thoughts.
Last edited by drAgON1 on 12-06-2002 at 14:18
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:20
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Dragon - ahh, you see, I'm really getting the impression that, if we continue like this, we won't start this tourney anytime soon  . I was expecting to start games this week, but again, even this doesn't look too real. So, I urge you to consider something...
Sure I'm not angry at Doom, just that we all though he offered that money. OK, OK.
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quinns
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Ugh... Here we go again. This is beginning to get ridiculous.
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drAgON1
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Mobile,AL,USA
Mar 2001
time: 05:20
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quote:
Dragon - ahh, you see, I'm really getting the impression that, if we continue like this, we won't start this tourney anytime soon . I was expecting to start games this week, but again, even this doesn't look too real. So, I urge you to consider something... |
Well, what would you like me to consider? Playing the same boring map for 100-200 hours???Only to go for the same things to win over and over?? To me that is WORK ! I not the CTP I love to play. If we stick with this map then your right this tourney will never be finished. If fact, as far as the nukes go, you have really disappointed many of the worlds greatest players here.My point:Nukes+ pollution WITH disasters is stupid! If you Gav, Solver, Quinns,Ice, or Swissy want this tourney to be done right you guys need to understand that there isnt much stratagy with nukes on. My points is that the map does not include but two real playing stlyes. Mostly the best civ builder will win. You anyone here likes to sneak attack early then you will lose this map as well as any sea or nearly any land units. Air power with come into play way too quick/w nukes-Trust me. That is boring.
quote:
Ugh... Here we go again. This is beginning to get ridiculous |
Quinns, All I am saying is if this tourney is gonna be finished and the times by all players will be 100+ hours.... WHY NOT TAKE THE TIME NOW AND MAKE AT LEAST ONE GOOD MAP!? Do not get me wrong, J's map is great for the civ builders, but like I have said there is not very many options. He does not really understand how the game will be played therefore it is difficult for him to make an "all around" player style map. This map I have in mind will need playtest and such, but lets not be lazy when it comes to a "world tournement".
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quinns
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Point taken, Dragon1, but is it really that bad? For example, when you were testing the COMP2B scenario, on what turn number did you create your first nuke? Is it really true that NOBODY can attack or have SDI's in place before the nukes are flying?
Look at the game of Chess. It is played on a boring 8x8 map with each side having exactly the same pieces (yawn...). Every game should turn out pretty much the same -- right? With maybe two strategies -- right? Wrong. Chess, with its relatively extremely simple rules, can be an enormously complex game with thousands of different strategies. I cannot believe that CTP, which is at least 1,000 times more complex than Chess, will end up with only two winning strategies using this map. I just cannot believe that. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think so.
Let's just go with this map for the first round (8 matches) as was suggested earlier. If it turns out that you are right, THEN let's get a new map.
Solver, you should get one more player, (I think Nuke Boy wanted in). That will make it an even 16 players. Then put all the names in a hat, randomly DRAW out the pairings for the first round, and post the pairings here. This volunteer pairing idea is not working. Gavrushka could not make it to the Gavrushka v. Quinns match last Saturday, so I do not think there are any matches underway right now.
The FIFA World Cup has put many competitors out of this discussion. I know Gavrushka is cheering for the United Kingdom and is temporarily out of commission. 
Dr. Doom, in the above rules and setup post, I changed the prize money back to $1000 USD from Gavrushka alone and removed your name from the donation list.
Last edited by quinns on 13-06-2002 at 00:57
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Dr. Doom1
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Dragon:
Every map you can think of is going to get a little dull after playing it 15+ times. But you know what? I've tested the map a few times and, even though you're right on some of your points, it's still darned good map. And in fact it's quite challenging; if you doubt this you'll find out soon enough. The best player is going to win on it; that's the most important priority.
You're never going to be able to please everyone. Suggestions are easy to make, but constructing a good map ain't that easy. It's a lot of slow tedious work actually.
So why don't we play the first tournament on the current map, and that way you will have lot's of time to construct the map for the next tournament?
Still waiting for any offers for a start, by the way. E-mail is nova20001@hotmail.com
Dr. Doom
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yoda
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PG, BC, Canada
Nov 2000
time: 21:20
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Dragon is right. This map IS a race to nukes/jets. And even after that, science is going so fast that by the time you get a few built and into place, SDI will be in play. Problem is, by the time you can build SDI in the majority of your cities, the few nukes used will cause the pollution disasters. Great fun, eh?
There is also a very, VERY small chance of any early attack working. Believe me, I have tested the map and by the time anyone can build a reasonable size force (4 to 8 SOL's with some troops) and sail them to attack, modern age tech is in play. At most, this type of strategy could take a couple of cities before being totally crushed.
These games will end with jets/nukes as dragon suggested UNLESS both players get there at roughly the same time and with massive science. Then, by the time either player can build any amount of forces, SDI will save the day. However, for those players good enough to get to SDI, they will not have much of a world left because of the disasters.
So, in my opinion, let's play this map out. It will become a very boring game after the first couple, but that will work to some players advantage. The map does not allow for much variety and the outcome will be almost the same every game except between two very evenly matched players.
Don't get me wrong, the map is a very good map. The best player will always come out on top with this kind of map. There is no luck (until disasters) so it is all about skill. However, that skill is all in expansion and empire management. Skill in military conquest will only be a factor between evenly matched players.
I am not suggesting changing the rules, but in my opinion, if you want to make this map more than it is, you have to reduce the goods a bit more to slow down science (if you want a military game); remove nukes from the game or make a rule that they can not be used against cities; and take pollution disasters out of the game.
yoda
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jpww
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Why didn't Paul get an invitation? It just occurred to me... He deserves a lot of credit having won two PBEM games from start to finish - beating lung and some other great players in the process-
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quinns
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I agree with Jppw about Paul (Apolyton Paul). Also, Keygen should be allowed to play, as far as I'm concerned. That makes 18. What do Solver and Gavrushka think?
Blackice and Lung have both been invited, but both declined.
Patryn is in basic military training in the U.S. Basic Training lasts 6 weeks, and then he will probably go to advanced training for at least another 6 weeks. He may be able to access the internet in advanced training though. Basic training does not allow any real access to the outside world. So he is incommunicado for at least another 3 weeks, I believe.
Solver, that is great that you are writing a small progam to randomize the draw.
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:20
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While I would welcome the other members, I have already refused entry for some people, and the player list is complete. I'm sorry to declare it, but the 16 players are final.
Re: Patryn - OK, your Basic Training doesn't quite seem democratic to me, it's wild. However, I think that Patryn can jump in later, and complete his games.
Maybe Patryn's opponent for the first round should already know his second round opponent, so that he could start with second round. Is this OK?
Umm, the program does nothing but draw 16 names, and make sure two persons don't play two times against each other. I just thought it's a bit more fair than the draw I would probably otherwise make in a pen&paper way.
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12-06-2002 03:25
now there must be something
constructive I can add to this post
I think this is why I thought you still included Patryn..
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