07-06-2002 06:41									#31
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory French too.....alot of frenchmen landed at normandy. 8,000 were killed. Most at omaha...and sword

8 000 frenchman were killed? The total fatality count for all Allied forces ran at less than 7000, IIRC.

	07-06-2002 07:01									#32
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse 8 000 frenchman were killed? The total fatality count for all Allied forces ran at less than 7000, IIRC.

Perhaps he is referring to the ones who were beaten to death by Allied troops who couldn't stand their snotty, cheese-eating anti-everythingism.

	07-06-2002 07:03									#33
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The casualty rate must have run near 100%...

Wait! My grandfather made it through. Maybe it only applies to Euro frenchies...

	07-06-2002 07:03									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident there are times I think Hitler wanted to lose. I think in private he was a masochist.

Perhaps he had a subconscious Shakespearean Tragic Hero syndrome.

	07-06-2002 08:03									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Perhaps he had a subconscious Shakespearean Tragic Hero syndrome.

'til American woods be come to Berlin City (needed an extra syllable)

We had REAL camouflage, not branches of trees.

Sorry, I just read Macbeth in English.

	07-06-2002 10:49									#36
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory 1100 german tanks sat there...doing nothing for the first 7 days. Hitler was an idiot, why would the allies STILL attack pas de calais, when there was 700,000 already on shore in normady.

Hitler had to believe that because the entire German intelligence network in England was reporting that the real attack was coming at the Pas de Calais.

What Hitler never knew was that his intelligence network in England wasn't so much a network as it was just one guy. And that guy wasn't working for German intelligence but rather British intelligence.

Hail to Garbo, the greatest unsung hero of the Normady invasion.

	07-06-2002 14:27									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov FG, it has been well-established by history that der Fuhrer was perhaps the greatest ally we had in defeating the Nazis. As a propagandist he may have been brilliant, but as a military tactician he was a complete bonehead. All he had to have done was let Rommel set up the defenses of Normandy like the field marshall had wanted to. The Allies wouldn't have gotten much past the beaches.

His panzers would have been eaten up by allied air attacks if he had kept them that close to the beach. Allied fighters were looking for anything they could shoot up (I make them sound like junkies!) within their range. While Rommel's strategy would have made things more difficult for the allies, the Germans were so overmatched at this point that they really had no chance, all of the History Channel "Hitler's Sedative" shows notwithstanding.

This is not to say that the men on the beach on both sides weren't fighting for their lives. But to answer some of this other strategy talk, the war was all but won already, and D-Day was another installment payed in blood.

	07-06-2002 14:33									#38
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D-Day.... one day in the history that had nothing to do with Finland. But that's why nobody here remembers it. That was a great day for the allied forces. And a sad day for many.

	07-06-2002 14:37									#39
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i couldn't care less actually. who gives a damn?

i know about the greeks repulsing a country 6 times larger and then despite this huge struggle giving a hard time to another country of the same size

what happened to a few yanks who happened to find themselves somewhere in europe to throw some firecrackers around hardly interests me

i'm more interested in those who actually fought the war like greeks serbs and russians

as for the gay brits, the krauts were better than them as it turned out

	07-06-2002 14:43									#40
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , its cause we are the devil himself , ....... have a nice day

Who doubt of that ? Your ancestor killed our God.

Fortunatly, He was strong enough to resurect him-self ...

	07-06-2002 14:47									#41
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Hitler was a mystical paranoid.

He lost many battle because he listen his phantasm and not his (competent) generals.

eg: He lost the air battle of England because he decided to bomb London and not continue to bomb airports as proposed by his generals.

	07-06-2002 15:09									#42
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Paiktis, you are an idiot.

	07-06-2002 15:10									#43
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says the guy who thinks nazis are more humane than communists

get over your hatred for the russians and then we can talk

	07-06-2002 15:14									#44
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--"says the guy who thinks nazis are more humane than communists"

Find me say that, cut and paste. I dare you.

--"get over your hatred for the russians and then we can talk"

What that untrue statement has to do with your denigration of the importance of D-Day landings is beyond me.

	07-06-2002 15:14									#45
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mind you besides a well deserved snob attitude towards some countries who don't know anything beyond their noses, I did not say anything incorrect, anything that did not happen

	07-06-2002 15:17									#46
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The "untrue" was regarding my alleged hatred.

	07-06-2002 15:18									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Find me say that, cut and paste. I dare you.

Do you think that Communists were just as inhumane as the Nazis?

You can settle it here once and for all.

quote: What that untrue statement has to do with your denigration of the importance of D-Day landings is beyond me.

It has to do with everything.

"Truth" is accomodated according to how one "feels" about another one.

An all too common falacy.

You hate the russians for what they did to you country (which I respectfully will not of course deny) and so you underestimate their primordial importance in defeating the nazi krauts which makes most others' efforts pale in comparison.

	07-06-2002 15:25									#48
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Two quotes:

--"says the guy who thinks nazis are more humane than communists"

--"Do you think that Communists were just as inhumane as the Nazis?"

So which do you wnat to know, the humaneness or the inhumaneness?

	07-06-2002 15:30									#49
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aren't they the two sides of the same coin? namely my question?

	07-06-2002 15:30									#50
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--"You hate the russians for what they did to you country (which I respectfully will not of course deny) and so you underestimate their primordial importance in defeating the nazi krauts which makes most others' efforts pale in comparison"

Just because Zhukov and Konev used human wave attacks that caused high casualties does not make their effort any more valuable. Of course they were heroes and martyrs, but don't overdo on the the idolisation side, OK? And don't say that efforts of Brits and Amis pale in comparison because none of these were invaded. If the US was inveded by Germans, you'd see no less heroism than the Russians - maybe more brains and more sensible tactics.

	07-06-2002 15:33									#51
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yes, yes,
but we talk about what happened not about what would have happened IF...

And I'm not the one who overdoes it on the idolisation. At least I have a basis for what I say and what I overdo= history and deeds, unlike some others who "saved us from speaking german" or were just fighting their own reflexions on the mirror (or the other way of the chanel)

	07-06-2002 15:34									#52
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--"aren't they the two sides of the same coin? namely my question?"

No. When both are inhumane, none can be more "humane".

I will not say anything about the relative inhumaneness, because it is impossible.

But as always I will most likely be accused, despite not actually saying the words, of being pro-nazi because of my rabid anti-communism. Which is course not true and also moronic.

	07-06-2002 15:37									#53
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there are different shades of grey as there are different levels of "inhumanity". black and white is another continent's fixation

And actually I understand what you say pretty good and where it is coming from. I don't think you're a pro-nazi.

	07-06-2002 15:37									#54
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The us saving everyone from speaking german is an exaggeration, to say the least.

But wait until a Brit sees that remark of yours about mirrors...

	07-06-2002 15:41									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Drekkus The 6 days war started on the 6th of the 6th? :hmm:

D-Day was the 6/6 ... and the H-hour was... you guessed: 6am.

The 6/6 at 6am, the Beast came out of the water , the apocalypse begun... we are now under its rule. , bow before its might

	07-06-2002 16:00									#56
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Picture this my dear Lithuanian:

There was a celebration for D Day some years back, somewhere in england IIRC. there were all the flags of the countries who took part in the war and were on the side of the allies. the greek flag was in the centre next to the british flag all nicely tucked up.

now, it was a year when the yogoslav war was raging and the western propaganda machine had made sure that everyone (but few) believed that the average serb was no better than a minion of satan himself.

and where was the yugoslav flag? or the serbian one?
it was nowhere to be found.

i naively thought of this as a celebration of the allies victory against those nazi guys, not yet another geopolitical propaganda forum.

a feast to honor all those who died fighting, bastards and heroes alike.


just because it did not serve the west's plan of that time to present the serbs as anything remotely "good" in the silly eyes of the naive sheep that is public opinion their flag was nowhere to be found.

does that mean that they did not fight the nazis while the croatians were busy slaughtering serbs and jews alike with their lasting even up to today german friends?
i guess it does.

does any yankee knows anything real about that war or does he only knows that "we saved europe from the nazis" as he is brought up to believe?

some people are so pathetic as to actually start to marvel at the might of the german war machine of that time, as if it was something really "cool"
yes i overdo it but just to punch some perspective into the whole deal. god knows we have enough american "info" as it is.

in short if they don't bother to honor those who died, then what's the point for D Day threads and celebrations? History can so easily be pissed on it seems. next time it might just as easily be you.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 07-06-2002 at 16:21

	07-06-2002 18:04									#57
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For an "Holywoodian" point of view, Bad people cannot be Brave, Smart, a some Good sides.

Since the D-Day was an hellish day for all guy who battled this day. But they were a lot of hellish battles this same year, for sure!

I remember that Iracq was shown as a progressist, liberal, somewhat democartic country when they were at war against the Evil Iran (Kids slaughter ...). Only few "rumors" about slaughter of Kurds ...

Now Iracqis are just bastard ... La Roue de la Fortune est d'une fort capricieuse nature ...

	07-06-2002 19:08									#58
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yes, but the fact that Iraq was wrongly portrayed as heroes , doesn't mean , that it's now wrongly portrayed as *******s , with the grand anal Khalif , Saddam Hussein.

	07-06-2002 19:12									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Perhaps he is referring to the ones who were beaten to death by Allied troops who couldn't stand their snotty, cheese-eating anti-everythingism.

Poor hamburger-eater pedantic morron ...

They not many french in normandy landing, because they were only few french division in England. Yet many french civilian were killed by US and British bombs. It was the price of freedom...

French Army was far more involved in Landing in Provence (3 US division / 7 french division : 250.000 men) as we had still "free" divisions in North Africa.

There were case were french army fired against Allied or other french soldiers. But it was uncommon. At this time our army was beheaded or, worst, bi-headed.

	07-06-2002 19:17									#60
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Zobo, face it , you'll never be able to shake off the image of the ones that surrendered to Nazi Germany. Despite all , facts , and evidences that may , or may not , exist, this will always haunt you. well , until the next war , maybe.