12-06-2002 09:32									#61
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quote: Originally posted by candidgamera Willem: good to hear. was worried there for a moment. Am thinking to not over penalize on unit costs for defense, basic city development, just make it more expensive for the units on top of that. Maybe cut down too on the AI paving over everything with railroads and irrigation. (Already only let hills and mts be mined, and require iron working to do the mine task).

There's not much you can do about the railroads, I'm afraid. Where ever there's a road, there's eventually going to be a railroad. And I think not allowing a road wouldn't be very practical. Same goes for irrigation, though it would make sense not allow it in the desert.

I'm doing the same with mining, I think those things look ugly dotting the landscape. I'd suggest Bronze Working as a more appropriate time to allow them though. People would have started to learn a thing or two about mining when they started working with that material after all. It would be a bit more historically accurate.

I sure wish they would hurry up with that patch, I keep thinking about some of the things I want to do with the new features I've been hearing about. Restricting certain terrain from having cities built on them in particular. I'd prefer not starve the AI out of the desert, just stop it from building there.

	12-06-2002 21:49									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Willem There's not much you can do about the railroads, I'm afraid. Where ever there's a road, there's eventually going to be a railroad. And I think not allowing a road wouldn't be very practical. Same goes for irrigation, though it would make sense not allow it in the desert. I'm doing the same with mining, I think those things look ugly dotting the landscape. I'd suggest Bronze Working as a more appropriate time to allow them though. People would have started to learn a thing or two about mining when they started working with that material after all. It would be a bit more historically accurate. I sure wish they would hurry up with that patch, I keep thinking about some of the things I want to do with the new features I've been hearing about. Restricting certain terrain from having cities built on them in particular. I'd prefer not starve the AI out of the desert, just stop it from building there.

no arguement on the rails, but maybe I can slow the paving rate.

I do Iron Working to make it harder, but a fair point. Also use: Pottery required for seeing wheat, and a lot of the luxuries that are vaguely related to agriculture or would need storage, like spices. And needed to irrigate.
Ceremonial burial for silk. Taxmen needs Code of Laws, Scientist needs philosophy.

Your last point, agreed: I make desert, tundra worth nothing undeveloped. limit it to plains, grassland, forests to be cleared? certainly jungles cleared and no tundra or un irrigated desert.

	12-06-2002 22:13									#63
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quote: Originally posted by candidgamera Also use: Pottery required for seeing wheat, and a lot of the luxuries that are vaguely related to agriculture or would need storage, like spices. And needed to irrigate.

Again not historically accurate. By all archeological accounts, Pottery didn't flourish until after mankind had established more or less permanent settlements. The early settlements used a hybrid of hunting/gathering and agriculture for a long time. Even then, many communities didn't have their own industries and traded instead for containers etc. Pottery products were one the earliest trade items.

And the Egyptians were irrigating their lands just by digging trenches in the ground. They didn't use pipes, which is what you're suggesting. At any rate, doing that doesn't make any difference anyway, since you don't get any benefit from irrigation until after you leave Despotism.

	13-06-2002 02:26									#64
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Willem:

won't question the history, mainly just like the feel of doing this - makes getting pottery seem more meaningful.

	13-06-2002 02:46									#65
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quote: Originally posted by candidgamera won't question the history, mainly just like the feel of doing this - makes getting pottery seem more meaningful.

Well that's what matters, it's only a game after all. Myself I'm trying get the game to resemble history as much as I can. It's an area I have an interest in, which is one reason why I like playing Civ.

With Civ II, I pretty much rewrote the entire tech tree because I felt they had missed some very important advances. Like Printing for instance. In this version, I'm adding a whole slew of buildings, which I thought should have been included. I'm just a stickler for historic detail I guess.

	13-06-2002 03:00									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well that's what matters, it's only a game after all. Myself I'm trying get the game to resemble history as much as I can. It's an area I have an interest in, which is one reason why I like playing Civ. With Civ II, I pretty much rewrote the entire tech tree because I felt they had missed some very important advances. Like Printing for instance. In this version, I'm adding a whole slew of buildings, which I thought should have been included. I'm just a stickler for historic detail I guess.

hi ,

and in doing so , you would have the vote of half the players , ...

have a nice day

	13-06-2002 16:11									#67
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You don't need a barracks to made land units, though land and sea sound like a resonablle idea

	13-06-2002 21:17									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well that's what matters, it's only a game after all. Myself I'm trying get the game to resemble history as much as I can. It's an area I have an interest in, which is one reason why I like playing Civ. With Civ II, I pretty much rewrote the entire tech tree because I felt they had missed some very important advances. Like Printing for instance. In this version, I'm adding a whole slew of buildings, which I thought should have been included. I'm just a stickler for historic detail I guess.

Am to assume you've read Guns, Germs, and Steel and that blurry process of getting to full-fledged agriculture.
Guess I'm looking at "Pottery" as a milestone, not that a civ isn't doing agriculture already, but that its doing it and storing food on a scale that's significant and effective in game terms - getting the granary. Like you mentioned above the despotism takes care of the wheat benefit anyway, just can't see it for planning my way - each to their own though. Am definitely inclined toward historical accuracy though, long time interest of mine as well. Printing should be as significant as writing.