25-06-2002 21:16									#31
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Since my vote counts for 10,000,000 and it's a close race, I've decided on which of the two I'd rather do (there's no fun to be had in making a scenario you don't have a vested interest in, I believe captain nemo said this).

The winner is:

Battle of the Bulge

I'll try to start work on it as soon as I've finished Kyokujitsu (read might be when you're thirty years older )

I'll set out with the intent of making it for FW/MGE since that is the most popular platform, even though ToT can provide a much more enthralling single player experience, especially with CSPL.

Edit: if anybody has any suggestions or ideas to get the ball rolling, I'd be glad to hear them.

	26-06-2002 05:56									#32
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Following on from an idea I had a while ago for a Midway scenario - I don't know exactly how much of the "battle" you were going to portray or on what sort of a scale, but how about different rules/units for night/day combat?
Air less effective maybe? Mounted infantry become dismounted? (That may not be realistic but something along these lines). Assault units become more effective? Etc...
In a similar fashion to many larger scale scenarios with larger scale seasonal changes.

	26-06-2002 05:58									#33
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Woo Hoo, Battle of the Bulge!

"At 5:30 A.m. an eruption of flame and smoke burst all along the Ghost front. After an hour the barrage stopped. Ghostly white-sheeted forms, almost invisible against the new fallen snow, came out of the haze towards the GIs. From the east there came a strange crackeling roar. The Germans looked up at their new jets streaking by at unbelievable speed and many cheered, wild with excitement. Hitler's miracle weapons were not talk but fact!

The Reich's desperate gamble in the west, had begun!"

	26-06-2002 10:58									#34
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Hmm the question remains... which side to make playable?

I'm leaning towards the Allies...

	26-06-2002 11:27									#35
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This could be interesting to play as the Germans. They were the 'underdogs' of the battle. It might be hard to have the AI attack fuel depots to fuel their panzers.

	26-06-2002 11:42									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Cavalcadeus This could be interesting to play as the Germans. They were the 'underdogs' of the battle. It might be hard to have the AI attack fuel depots to fuel their panzers.

Agree.

	26-06-2002 12:24									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Cavalcadeus This could be interesting to play as the Germans. They were the 'underdogs' of the battle. It might be hard to have the AI attack fuel depots to fuel their panzers.

You could make the depots "attractive" using high shield cost values, but I suppose a German AI might just bomb them from the air, er, I mean land the luftwaffe in the depots, load em up and then take off again, carrying the captured gas back to their dry panzers.

That bridge incident with the disguised German "MP's" could possibly be modelled with a change terrain trigger. If they "kill" (ie: capture) a "bridge unit" on an ocean (deep river) square then change the terrain to a land square allowing their upcoming panzers to cross...

	26-06-2002 20:25									#38
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If we have any masters of the German language here, what's the equivalent of Operation "Autumn Mist" in German?

	26-06-2002 21:03									#39
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The German name of this operation is "HERBSTNEBEL." This translates as "Autumn Fog" in all of the sources I have.

It would be interesting to play either side in this scenario though I tend towards the Germans. I guess if the scenario was designed around the allies it would play just like Red front going in the opposite direction...IMHO

	27-06-2002 06:12									#40
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The Germans it is then!

	01-07-2002 00:12									#41
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op Citadel big huge battles with over 1000 tanks

	01-07-2002 08:11									#42
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Another crackpot idea - How about a rules.txt that sets all German armoured units (other than Hessels (sp?) "hero types" perhaps) to move=0?
This would have to be loaded up if certain fuel depot units hadn't been "killed" by a certain turn?

	02-07-2002 03:14									#43
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That's a great idea ravagon. I've also been thinking about how to simulate this. However, I thought the rules.txt could simulate the poor weather which grounded aircraft (and change at a certain point to allow allied fighter bombers to come in.)

As far as the germans lacking fuel, I thought there could be special fuel dump units which would create extra German armour if destroyed. Given a steady drain of the limited German starting tanks through attrition, I think failure to capture these full dumps (and thus not receive the bonus armour units) would probably simulate lack of fuel just as well, and halt the German advance.

Well, that's what I think

	02-07-2002 06:12									#44
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I think BOTH sides should be playable. Is it really that much of a problem to make an extra set of events for the other guy?

*gets ready to duck torrent of abuse and cries of 'YES IT IS!'*

	02-07-2002 07:04									#45
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Most scens tend to compensate for the AI by increasing the numbers/capabilities and/or positions/abilities of units controlled by the AI civs - in most cases enough that making something playable by both sides would be pretty much the equivalent of starting again from scratch - especially amongst the more "historically accurate" scens.
ie: Not quite as simple as just changing the events/rules.

That weather idea is a good one too. How about a random chance (1 in 3 or 4 each day, for example) of a text message popping up telling the player to load up the "bad weather - no air support available, artillery effects reduced" rules?

[If Darth were sufficiently motivated (read:insane ) he could even hunt up old Met. reports to see what the weather was like each day in that area 58-odd years ago and remove the randomizing factor ]

Last edited by ravagon on 02-07-2002 at 09:26

	02-07-2002 08:35									#46
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I am insane!

	02-07-2002 09:26									#47
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Crikey. That was supposed to be a joke ...

	02-07-2002 19:32									#48
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The offensive began on the 16th of December. The weather was too bad for air support until 23rd December, when the allied fighter bombers came in and ripped the panzer formations to shreads.

Also of interest was the luftwaffe's own planned knockout blow which was timed to start with the offensive (but again was grounded due to weather) code named "Base Plate" (erm, Bodenplotte in German I think). The plan was for them to mount a surprise strike at allied airfeilds. The attack eventually started on New Years day and gained some considerable success in some areas. However, the loss of fuel, equipment and trained personel during the attack was not justified by the results.

Hmm, sums up the whole German effort in the Ardennes I reckon.

	02-07-2002 21:38									#49
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I think that 7 days for the entire scen is good then. 6 turns per day. One events file for each day.

	06-07-2002 14:04									#50
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Most scens tend to compensate for the AI by increasing the numbers/capabilities and/or positions/abilities of units controlled by the AI civs - in most cases enough that making something playable by both sides would be pretty much the equivalent of starting again from scratch - especially amongst the more "historically accurate" scens. ie: Not quite as simple as just changing the events/rules.

Two scens is fine by me, Darth

	06-07-2002 23:10									#51
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groan