18-06-2002 06:30									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by GP Combat Mission is a beautiful work, but has had limited numbers. I read an article about this. You wouldn't understand, in free enterprise, one needs to make the money to recoup an investment.

They seem to be quite happy with returns, and are not begging for food, as far as I can see.

	18-06-2002 06:34									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Mikel I think the 5th "X" being the Experience was what has held my interest in the game from the start and I am sure many people agree with me.

Hmmm. What held my interest was the large amount of detail; intricate cause-effect system; IFPs. Most of that was cut, it seems.

	18-06-2002 10:33									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune They seem to be quite happy with returns, and are not begging for food, as far as I can see.

They're not getting rich of off it. It's an incredible peice of work. But its nto a top 10 title. That should tell you something, commie.

	18-06-2002 20:16									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

GP has a point, in order for a game to be a success, it has to not only pay back its initial investment but more over needs to provide cash flows to fuel the next development effort. This is especially true for fledgling companies. One can live only so long going to the bank and living off a line of credit.

OTOH if one can develop games for gratis with little in the way of development cost, then you should be way ahead of the curve as revenues from the game are pretty much gravy and can be applied to future efforts.

	18-06-2002 22:47									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

However, it sounds like these guys are way overbudget and do not have a game yet.

	18-06-2002 23:21									#36
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe OTOH if one can develop games for gratis with little in the way of development cost, then you should be way ahead of the curve as revenues from the game are pretty much gravy and can be applied to future efforts.

At least so long as you do not consider what the time you spend on the effort is worth otherwise.

	18-06-2002 23:34									#37
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper At least so long as you do not consider what the time you spend on the effort is worth otherwise.

What don't we all have 30 hour days of which 12 hours are free to post on Apolyton?

	18-06-2002 23:37									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Amazing as though it might seem, I guess even emperor-class Poly denizens couldn't finish a half-way decent game on their Poly time... maybe the Gods could

	19-06-2002 00:56									#39
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by GP They're not getting rich of off it.

Neither was Michelangelo. So, what?

quote: It's an incredible peice of work. But its nto a top 10 title.

Those two things you state are mutually exclusive. If the majority had sound judgement, this would be a different kind of world altogether.

	19-06-2002 01:00									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper At least so long as you do not consider what the time you spend on the effort is worth otherwise.

If you create the games you want to play, your time is well spent. If you then also make some money -and Battlefront does!-, then you have the best of both worlds.

Just shoot management, and everything will work out fine.

	19-06-2002 02:08									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe GP has a point, in order for a game to be a success, it has to not only pay back its initial investment but more over needs to provide cash flows to fuel the next development effort. This is especially true for fledgling companies. One can live only so long going to the bank and living off a line of credit. OTOH if one can develop games for gratis with little in the way of development cost, then you should be way ahead of the curve as revenues from the game are pretty much gravy and can be applied to future efforts.

Umm...I can't have my name associated with that type of analysis. Projects need to fund themselves. Not other projects. NPV, baby. NPV.

	19-06-2002 02:11									#42
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune Neither was Michelangelo. So, what?

profit motive, commie. There are real limits as to what people can/will produce without a return. Why not get a job. Than you'll understand.

quote: Those two things you state are mutually exclusive.

That's my point, commie.

	19-06-2002 05:40									#43
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by GP Umm...I can't have my name associated with that type of analysis. Projects need to fund themselves. Not other projects. NPV, baby. NPV.

You gonna tell me a large NPV is a bad thing .

By the by, Firaxians by their admission (perhaps not QS)are the ones that count on a commercial success as being the cash cow that drives future developments. I simply assumed it was the case for all developers. In of itself it would make sense for a development house to live off this mentality.

While each project needs to manage its own success, a company depending on each project to be successful is IMHO operating too tightly. Now you may want to say the project team should operate as if their existance depends onthe success of the project and that I'ld buy.

	19-06-2002 08:36									#44
	Put an end to popups!

I'm not saying that every project must be succesful. The risks of non-success are included in the NPV calculation.

	19-06-2002 18:11									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

Pardon...

What is a NPV?

	19-06-2002 18:30									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

NPV = Net Present Value

It takes cash flows over a course of years and discounts them using a discount rate. Normally it is the cost of capital plus a comfort level.

Any NPV that is positive over the time period of review means that the endeavor delivers at least the rate of return defined by the NPV discount rate. The more positive the NPV the larger the margin the endeavor beats the discount hurdle rate. (This is easily done using a simple excel spreadsheet and using the appropriate function, NPV)

Discounted Cash flow is the best means to evaluate endeavors as it takes into account the largish outlay and then discount future cash flows as future money is worth less in real world terms then money inthe pocket today. (Takes into account inflation and interest that could have been accrued for examples)

Other means of evaluting endeavors include IRR (Internal Rate of Return) which takes cash flows and calculates the equivalent discount rate to make the future discounted cash flows equal the initial cash outlays. In this case the IRR is roughly equivalent to a return rate. (Typically this is also a good measure but one needs to be cognizant that if there are a number of negative cashflows there maybe a a number of solutions wherein the sum of the DCC = 0. )

As for building in uncertainty of success being built into the NPV calcualtions it all comes down to the familiarity with the market, familiarity with the development cycle etc. and then assigning the appropriate risks possibily doing a sensitivity analysis using best and worst case scenarios.

Og

	19-06-2002 21:18									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

you should use the cost of capital without a comfort factor. If you have doubts about projections than modify the revenues and profits. But don't use a messed up discount rate.

	19-06-2002 21:26									#48
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by GP you should use the cost of capital without a comfort factor. If you have doubts about projections than modify the revenues and profits. But don't use a messed up discount rate.

Most times the cost of capital was not well defined in the companies I worked for. Hence I always fudged both ends conservatively to make sure the projects were winners.

But your point is well taken the risk assumptions always go to the cash flows not the discount rate.

	19-06-2002 21:47									#49
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The first thing I would check in your calculation is the discount rate. You should learn how to calculate a WACC.

	19-06-2002 22:03									#50
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It would have been helpful. Truth be told tho' any economic evaluations were always checked. My job was to make sure the first cut look at them was to evaluate them as critically as possible. If they made the cut from me, I'ld let the finance/accounting weenies work up their numbers.

Does that mean I sand bagged some profit numbers, was overly critical of projects. Perhaps, but when you have scarce resources you wanna make sure you work on the big bang for the buck ones.

	19-06-2002 22:13									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

keep wiggling...

	19-06-2002 22:15									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

LOL



In any event the real talent is bein dead on with the cash flows.

	19-06-2002 22:22									#53
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Good wiggle, worm!

	19-06-2002 22:26									#54
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Looks like the worm was put into good use for trolling.