21-06-2002 09:27									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Trip By the time we share borders, they'll be many times stronger than us, and may even have iron working (and iron, no doubt, which we lack).

That's where we come in, we are industrialists remember?

Hehe, but no seriously, by the time uber finishes this "jungle plan" and gets his precious army, we will share boarders.

	21-06-2002 09:30									#32
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BTW, what was in the goody hut? Gold?

	21-06-2002 09:32									#33
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I estimate ~ 45 turns before we can declare war on France and be sure that we can crush them. 8 turns to finish Bronze Working, ~ 25 for the Wheel, another 3 or 5 to find a source of horses/begin using them, and another 10 or so to build up a sizeable force that will be able to defeat them. How many cities do you think we'll be able to get out by then.

The Goody Hut was deserted.

	21-06-2002 09:32									#34
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nothing.. it was abandoned, or whatever the game calls it...

nothing in it, all we got from going that way was the French (and an end to jungle)

	21-06-2002 09:40									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I estimate ~ 45 turns before we can declare war on France and be sure that we can crush them. 8 turns to finish Bronze Working, ~ 25 for the Wheel, another 3 or 5 to find a source of horses/begin using them, and another 10 or so to build up a sizeable force that will be able to defeat them. How many cities do you think we'll be able to get out by then. The Goody Hut was deserted.

That depends on Punkbass. But I know him. He is a REX maniac. I guestimate we will have somewhere around 6 cities total by then.

	21-06-2002 10:02									#36
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I think the Popular Front has an important role to take in the struggles of Apolytonian democracy. The DIA is builder party. While the DIA is not opposed to war they are not in favor of sacrificing their builder objectives for pursusing war if it is avoidable. The Popular Front parties mainly believe that internal improvements should serve the pursuit of territorial expansion, not the other way around. It's a basic difference of objectives.
There needs to be parties for both views. The Popular Front mearly brings together those parties that believe in the pursiut of expansion because the opposing view has only one relatively strong party.

Last edited by Duddha on 21-06-2002 at 11:41

	21-06-2002 10:19									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Duddha There needs to be parties for both views.

I agree. Our nation can only survive if our citizens tolerate each others differences of opinion, if when those opinions (...cough...DIA...cough) are wrong.

	21-06-2002 13:36									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Timeline Don't you read our posts? We are agreeing with you. Get a clue

*points to the quote above*

For a more detailed rundown on my views, check this post: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...876#post1057318

	21-06-2002 19:07									#39
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We may indeed all be in agreement in the short term, and that is a wonderful thing, but long term goals are a bit different. You say that war is a tool for expanding and building, where as building and tech can also be seen as a tool for war, and more expansion. Both paths can lead to victory. There needs to be two sides in the debate, and then allow the masses to decide based on their own oppinions of the two views.

	21-06-2002 19:16									#40
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How true that above statement is.........


Nice post.

	21-06-2002 21:44									#41
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx We may indeed all be in agreement in the short term, and that is a wonderful thing, but long term goals are a bit different. You say that war is a tool for expanding and building, where as building and tech can also be seen as a tool for war, and more expansion. Both paths can lead to victory. There needs to be two sides in the debate, and then allow the masses to decide based on their own oppinions of the two views.

hi ,

most of the people dont want war , not yet , ...

have a nice day

	21-06-2002 22:09									#42
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According to the poll on French relations, it seems that most are in favor of war.

You are right that we are not ready, yet. We should not send our two warriors on a suicide mission. But we must BEGIN PREPERATIONS. Find their cities (they wont have only one for long), research offensive techs, build an army, more cities. NOW is the time to ensure that we ARE ready when the time comes.

	21-06-2002 22:50									#43
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx According to the poll on French relations, it seems that most are in favor of war. You are right that we are not ready, yet. We should not send our two warriors on a suicide mission. But we must BEGIN PREPERATIONS. Find their cities (they wont have only one for long), research offensive techs, build an army, more cities. NOW is the time to ensure that we ARE ready when the time comes.

hi ,

we need first more techs , we can slow them down a bit , or trade worldmaps , but that is not going to be a smart idea , .....

anyway , we should get more techs , BEFORE we start any war , ....

have a nice day

	21-06-2002 22:59									#44
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quote: Originally posted by panag we need first more techs , we can slow them down a bit , or trade worldmaps , but that is not going to be a smart idea , ..... anyway , we should get more techs , BEFORE we start any war , ...

That is what I stated. Gaining techs is part of preparing for war.

	21-06-2002 23:05									#45
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx That is what I stated. Gaining techs is part of preparing for war.

hi ,

, nope you stated "offensive" ones , the faster we have library's and university's , combined with hospitals , we shall get those "offensive" ones for next to nothing , ...

have a nice day

	21-06-2002 23:22									#46
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So, you really think that, with our starting position, we can wait till we build Libraries, Universities, and Hospitals before going to war? We must strike now, while they are unprepared. Even if we fail to totally destroy France, we can at least cripple them.

But, as I said earlier, the POLL suggests that the majority wish to go to war. IF THAT IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, WE MUST PREPARE ACCORDINGLY.

	21-06-2002 23:27									#47
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx So, you really think that, with our starting position, we can wait till we build Libraries, Universities, and Hospitals before going to war? We must strike now, while they are unprepared. Even if we fail to totally destroy France, we can at least cripple them. But, as I said earlier, the POLL suggests that the majority wish to go to war. IF THAT IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, WE MUST PREPARE ACCORDINGLY.

hi ,

if we go now , then this game is over , ....

they have at least 50 units , ...

have a nice day

	21-06-2002 23:28									#48
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So anyone who wants to run or nominate someone for PFC VP candidate can post here.

	21-06-2002 23:30									#49
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Panag, how do you know they have atleast 50 units?

	21-06-2002 23:31									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Duddha Panag, how do you know they have atleast 50 units?

hi ,

the level we started on , and the turns done , ....

have a nice day

	21-06-2002 23:57									#51
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And the longer we wait, the more of an advantage they will gain. Now they are out scouting the area, strike while they have but a few defenders, bloody their nose, and they will beg for mercy. Destroying one or two cities early will cripple them. They may have superior numbers, but nowhere near 50...this isn't Diety.

	22-06-2002 00:02									#52
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx So, you really think that, with our starting position, we can wait till we build Libraries, Universities, and Hospitals before going to war? We must strike now, while they are unprepared. Even if we fail to totally destroy France, we can at least cripple them. But, as I said earlier, the POLL suggests that the majority wish to go to war. IF THAT IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, WE MUST PREPARE ACCORDINGLY.

hi ,

going to war now , is bound to end in a massive failure , .....

they have at least 10 places , 10 places that are producing not only library's , but also units , ....

there shall be no way we are going to cripple them , they us , yes , .............

have a nice day

	22-06-2002 00:26									#53
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Going to war now CAN be effective, I have managed it, I know that others swear by it as well. If you say that you manage a win by peacefull means, I trust that you know something that I do not. However, BOTH means require a commitment to that plan. We must commit fully to either the ultimate destruction of France, or to a peaceful cooexistance.

I do not see any descriptive plan of yours as to how, with our lousy starting position, you propose we build a technological advantage. Even if we managed to build Libraries, they would not do much good with our current cities. Even if we colonize the Jungle, or just outside the Jungle, we are not likely to have many decent cities as they will either be in the Jungle, or crippled by corruption from being too far away. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

	22-06-2002 00:35									#54
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Without an early war (not later than by 1500BC), this game is doomed. To wait for Libraries is ridiculous.

	22-06-2002 00:52									#55
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Actually, Uber really does listen to the people. When a lot of people started going against his War Chariot plan, he abandoned it in favor of Archers.

	22-06-2002 01:07									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Without an early war (not later than by 1500BC), this game is doomed. To wait for Libraries is ridiculous.

i concur whole heartedly.

	22-06-2002 01:09									#57
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That's why we elected you. You're more genocidal than I am.

	22-06-2002 01:10									#58
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The question isnt whether we should start a war with the French, it's how we will fight it.

	22-06-2002 01:23									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Kingof the Apes The question isnt whether we should start a war with the French, it's how we will fight it.

hi ,

kill them units who try to get true the jungle , and hope that after 20 turns they give up , so that we have a peace deal , ....

have a nice day

	22-06-2002 01:28									#60
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , kill them units who try to get true the jungle , and hope that after 20 turns they give up , so that we have a peace deal , .... have a nice day

Hope they'll give up...THAT is what you call a plan?

Personally, I do not want to hide behind the jungle wondering when France will decide to see what is on the other side. We must ACT, not wait and pray for them to give up.