13-07-2002 21:54									#31
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I'm not sure, but I suppose that each perosn simply gets to pick what Civ they want to play in the same way they would for an SP game. This raises the problem of having more than one person picking the same Civ.

Probably the players throw a dice and they choose their civ following the order of the dice.

What I'd like would be to choose the traits (when the game is not played on an History back ground ) and built a new civ.

	13-07-2002 21:59									#32
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quote: Originally posted by W4r_Machine Trading importants techs are out of the question, it simply wont happen 'cept for those rare occurances.

That will make the scientific trait a winner.

	13-07-2002 22:45									#33
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quote: Originally posted by W4r_Machine So the croud is somewhat devided: traders and non-traders. Trading importants techs are out of the question, it simply wont happen 'cept for those rare occurances.

I wouldn't say rare. What about if you want the Horseback Riding and your rival wants the Iron Working? Of course, there is a risk involved with trading, but you will also get opportunities and chances.

Suppose there are four players, two of them are trading regularly, while two totally remained isolationist. Whom do you think would come out on top after 200 turns, and who will be leading in technologies?

I will always trade with a far away player.

	13-07-2002 23:07									#34
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Another question : In the MP game, will there be only human players, or the human players will be complemented as will by AI players ?

	13-07-2002 23:10									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Transcend I wouldn't say rare. What about if you want the Horseback Riding and your rival wants the Iron Working? Of course, there is a risk involved with trading, but you will also get opportunities and chances. Suppose there are four players, two of them are trading regularly, while two totally remained isolationist. Whom do you think would come out on top after 200 turns, and who will be leading in technologies? I will always trade with a far away player.

Exactly my point big T. I'm for pro trading but only if the deal isn't lop sided. I'm sure everyone feel the same way. If the AI can make it work, why can't the human can...right?

However, sooner or later a conflict will arise. It should be fun exchanging nukes and ICBM if a MP game ever reaches that far.

	13-07-2002 23:26									#36
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quote: Originally posted by W4r_Machine If the AI can make it work, why can't the human can...right?

The ability of humans to cooperate in a competitive situation is far from being demontrated (somebody recalled the paradox of the prisonner and the benefit we would get in reading John Nash works ! ) .
The very first games will teach us a lot in that respect, particularly if the AI players are not mixed with the humans.

	14-07-2002 00:36									#37
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I wouldn't count out the fella who's isolated himself for 200 turns. Even if he is behind by a fair amount, he may have been using those turns to other effects: Military buildup, defensive fortification, empire consolidation.

Still, I have to think that after a few games get played, people who are apt to trade away IW or Chivalry are going to realize that "bite the hand that feeds them" will soon apply.

But there is one thought: Warmongers may trade peace techs. Why? Well, most peace techs are harmless, and in fact DETRACT from your military power (when you're building a university you're NOT building troops). The main thing they tend to give you, is wonders. Now, if you're a fighter, you're probably acquiring a few leaders... you do the math. Give everyone on earth Theology with a smile for some choice rewards... then rush the Sistine Chapel the very next turn. Suckers!

	14-07-2002 01:43									#38
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 IIRC, Horsebacking riding is not on the way to monarchy; it's a dead end tech. Perhaps you mean Warrior Code.

Not quite a dead end tech though, you need it to get out the ancient era.

	14-07-2002 01:51									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Nakar Gabab I wouldn't count out the fella who's isolated himself for 200 turns. Even if he is behind by a fair amount, he may have been using those turns to other effects: Military buildup, defensive fortification, empire consolidation. Still, I have to think that after a few games get played, people who are apt to trade away IW or Chivalry are going to realize that "bite the hand that feeds them" will soon apply.

Why do you assume that trades will have an negative effect on building one's empire? Military buildups, defensive fortifications, and empire consolidations can all happen in parallel while you are trading.

Like I said before, trade involves certain risks, but also opportunities. It's not like I'm giving away important techs for free. If I sell the IW, I better make sure that I get at least Horseback Riding in return.

Also, trading with players who are not your immediate competitors is a great must. Chances are great that the players you traded with have the intention to thrash their neighbors. Meanwhile, you can use the benefit you get out of the trade to thrash your own neighbors and strengthen your own empire.

Allying with distant friends and attack your neighbors. That's the key.

	14-07-2002 09:48									#40
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You have to be careful about that. If you let one other guy smash his neighbors, then you have to contend with his HUGE empire when you could be fighting several smaller ones. If you're going to trade to distant lands, you might as well trade to everyone.

But what happens when they trade back on the same principle? The tech you didn't want your juicy target to have gets it in a roundabout way.

I would be VERY wary of selling military tech, and I would be deeply suspicious of anyone who offers great deals for them. Why are you so eager to sell me IW? Is it because you can see that I don't have any iron? Should I hurry and expand? Or are you just wanting me to think that...

	14-07-2002 10:37									#41
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a few things that you have to knwo about mp are these:

without AI techwhorig / devaluation, the tech race will slow doen substantionally. if humas dont want to trade techs (ie i see you have iron and i dont want to give you iron working) the game will move even slower.

humans wont stand to be subjigated. if you're playign agaist close friends, they'll attack you rather than go along with your "vassal state" "i'll charge you 50 gpt for iron" polocies. they'd rather die.

if ure playing anon. people, they'll porobably just quit (idiots)

	14-07-2002 14:43									#42
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quote: I would be VERY wary of selling military tech, and I would be deeply suspicious of anyone who offers great deals for them. Why are you so eager to sell me IW? Is it because you can see that I don't have any iron? Should I hurry and expand? Or are you just wanting me to think that...

Well, if you buy the tech anyway you will see whether or not you have any iron. Moreover, if you don't have any you will be able to see where it is and expand accordingly.

	14-07-2002 20:57									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Nakar Gabab But what happens when they trade back on the same principle? The tech you didn't want your juicy target to have gets it in a roundabout way.

If you don't trade and they trade, you are even in bigger mess.