16-07-2002 03:11									#31
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I wonder if there is any way to get an emoticon for a lit bic... (pun intended)

	16-07-2002 06:42									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Bambul One of the problems lies with the fundamental assumption used in Civ3 that higher food production leads to higher population and vice-versa. Whilst it is true that a lack of food causes a fall in the general population (ie. famine), the converse is not necessarily true. In fact, currently most western nations overproduce agricultural goods and yet the greatest increases in population is in Africa/Asia, not Europe/North America.

The growth of humanity into what we consider to be civilization is largely attributed to agricultural surpluses from the improving of farming techniques. More food does quite often mean a greater population growth rate, although this was more true in the past than it is now. Your example of present day nations is skewed by other factors such as wealth, social dynamics, and birth control availability, which have much more to do with the situation you describe than food does.

	16-07-2002 06:55									#33
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cyclo nailed it. Bambul, look at the history of the islands around Australia for the impact of high versus low food production.

	16-07-2002 11:22									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan June 10, 1942 - The Czech city of Lidice is completely razed by the Nazis as a reprisal for the execution of SS Leader Reinhard Heydrich, who was killed by Czech partisans. The Nazis killed every male over the age of 16 and sent the remaining women and children to concentration camps. The city was then razed, building by building, until it was completely destroyed. The area of the town was then plowed over and planted with grain. The name of the town was also removed from all Nazi maps.

Lidice was not the only Czech town razed after the successfull assassination of Reinhard Heydrich. The other one was Lezaky. Although these were rather small villages, not even towns, they were literally razed, just like in Civ3.

Coracle, what makes you think that it is you who can distinguish between features and bugs? A bug is something that creeps into the program inadvertently. A feature is something that is there deliberately. Culture flipping is a feature you don't like, that's it (I mean, a feature you do not know how to handle). Speaking of bugs in this context is ridiculous.

	18-07-2002 07:04									#35
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Vondrack you know Coracle is being rhetorical in his complaint about culture flippin...

And for the most part I agree with him, there is no reasonable context for culture flipping. Especially in the context of conquered lands.

Venger

	18-07-2002 09:25									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Venger Vondrack you know Coracle is being rhetorical in his complaint about culture flippin...

Which is, as you probably know, completely irrelevant to the fact that by definition flipping is obviously not a bug.

	18-07-2002 09:40									#37
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Which is, as you probably know, completely irrelevant to the fact that by definition flipping is obviously not a bug.

Oh Jesus. This is Clintonesque hair splitting.

We KNOW it is a designed facet of the game: for reasons only known to Soren and God they WANTED this crap in the game.

So if a "bug" is a screwup UNEXPECTED by the designer CF is not "a bug". We had scores of bugs come with the game when it was released. Far too many; so many it was in reality a BETA game.

But if a bug is anything that MESSES UP the game in terms of historic simulation and game mechanics then CF is a bug. A BIG one. It does things that are stupid, illogical, and profoundly irritating. That is why I consider it a bug - even though Soren in his wisdom (ahem) planned for CF to be in the game.

What is obvious is that in the rush to get it out this facet of the game was not playtested, so one might add that a part of the game - even when planned to be there by the designer - IS in truth a bug if it fails playtesting. This thing wasn't playtested enough, if at all.


Call it whatever you want. Just get rid of it, Firaxis.

	18-07-2002 16:36									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle Cities and borders do NOT "flip", nor has anyone "razed" a city totally since Carthage over two thousand years ago.

of course they don't flip just like that in real life.

maybe culture flip is a bad name for this: it should be more like "hamburg thinks you $uck as a leader and declared independance. they are protected by the indians now"

as for razing cities: that does exist. it's called genocide. see rwanda a few years ago, where the majority of the population slaughtered hundreds of thousands of the minority (one were hutu's, the other tuzi's, don't ask me, which one did what...).
genghis khan (less than 2000 years ago) also razed all cities and villages on his way...

btw coracle: i mostly don't agree with your points, but i must admit, that you spice up this forum

	18-07-2002 17:47									#39
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf maybe culture flip is a bad name for this: it should be more like "hamburg thinks you $uck as a leader and declared independance. they are protected by the indians now"

Well said! Now I have to change the script.txt file again.