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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
Of course we should not have fought in WW2. That caused the death of 435,000 Americans, whose deaths were caused by the United States government. Don't blame Germany for shooting them when they attacked German soldiers, blame the US for sending them 4000 miles away to a war that didn't concern us. |
It did concern us. The loss of all trade with the formerly free nations of Europe most certainly concerned us. The murders of millions concern ALL that can do something. We could do something. We can't always do something but in this case we not only could we had good economic reasons as well. Those that don't fight to keep what they have will lose to those that are willing to steal it and Hitler was willing to kill everyone in the Soviet Union just to steal their land.
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As to the Gulf War, Iraq invaded Kuwait and was threatening to invade Saudi Arabia - two backwards-ass Muslim dictatorships we had no business supporting, especially in the case of Saudi Arabia. Add to that fact that the US Ambassador gave Iraq the impression we would not intervene if they invaded Kuwait, and it's a pretty clear case of US militarism and intervention into a foreign war for economic reasons. |
Well I didn't bring that one up but I disagree on at least two counts. There are indications the US government made some serious but secret promises to the Saudis after WWII. They trade oil and we protect it. This is speculation of course because the US government hasn't admitted to it. That is wrong but we still should try to keep the promise. We just should make known. Secret agreements are not right in a democracy outside of war.
Another is that economic interests ARE a valid reason for war. War is not just about survival when a nation is attacked directly on its own soil. That is just isolationism again.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
That, and Iraq's grievance against Kuwait was probably legitimate. Kuwait had been stealing Iraqi oil, and had pretty much said "nyah-nyah" to Iraq about it.
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I haven't seen anything that supports Iraq's claim. What I have see is that both nations were tapping the same oil field. Kuwait tapped from their side and Iraq from its. Iraq seemed to think that since some of the field was under their land that they owned it all. I think they made a claim that Kuwait was slant drilling but I haven't heard of anything to support the claim.
Even if the claim was valid that didn't justify their actions. They conquered the whole state of Kuwait. If it was just a border dispute the right thing to do was take the territory that was disputed and no more. To take more showed the whole thing was just a pretext for conquest.
That by the way is what Iraq did with Iran. They took a disputed area without trying to conquer when Iran was in turmoil just after the Shaw was thrown out. Of course it eventually led to a major war but Kuwait is too small for that and might have had great difficulty in getting any allies in a war that was only over disputed territory.
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Dan Severn
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Wellborn, Texas The Warrior Dennis Miller
May 2001
time: 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
Of course we should not have fought in WW2. That caused the death of 435,000 Americans, whose deaths were caused by the United States government. Don't blame Germany for shooting them when they attacked German soldiers, blame the US for sending them 4000 miles away to a war that didn't concern us.
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That is quite possibly one of the most insipid Ideas I have ever heard. OF COURSE we had to fight in WWII. I don't know about you, but the Idea of living in a fascist dictatorship isn't very appealing. We had to stop that evil, and the only way to stop an army is to attack it. Our casualties were relatively light when compared with the carnage suffered by other nations in that war. That is because we fought on the offensive. Furthermore, we were attacked by the Japanese. We were at war before we knew it. Hitler then declared war on us. I'd put a little more effort into my reading if I were you.
BTW: 558,000 Americans died in our Civil War, when the population of america was barely more than a quarter what it was in WWII. You want to talk about a war that could have been avoided?
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Dan Severn
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Wellborn, Texas The Warrior Dennis Miller
May 2001
time: 23:21
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DinoDoc, Butchery and conquest is its own reward. The japanese weren't doing anythin wrong- it was just a "cultural misunderstanding."
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Dr Strangelove
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Of course the intensity of feeling about September 11 is fading and people are getting on with their lives, that's the healthy thing to do. An enormous number of people were traumatized by the WTC carnage. Would you really want all those people to wander around in shock or screaming for al-Qaeda blood for the rest of their lives? We've done about all that we can do to remedy the conditions that led to the attack. We decimated bin Laden's organization and we're putting pressure on allied ME nations to root out what's left. What more could we do? We could exclude arabs and muslims from the US - no one is in favor of that. We could bring every nation which may harbor clandestine al - Qaeda cells to their knees - no one is in favor of that. If there is nothing more to be done than we might as well go about our business.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
But the U.S. does not need to play peacekeeper; that's the UN's job. In fact, the US should consider it's membership in the UN, but that is a different topic.
America spends its resources trying to defend a world that, in many places, resents its presence and even her existence. |
The UN has no troops. No one in the US would tolerate the UN having its own troops either. I doubt that any other of the permanent members of the Security Council would want it either.
We should belong to the UN. Not belonging is just more of that isolationist head in the sand stuff. The Russians used to have a habit of walking out on votes when they were miffed with what was being voted on. That is how the UN got involved in the Korean War. The Russians got huffy and walked and the US and our allies imediatly passed resolutions and whatever else they needed to make the defense of South Korea a UN mandate.
The Russians had enough sense to NEVER EVER miss another vote. I surely hope the US retains the sense the Russians gained the hard way. Never boycott the UN and always be there to veto things we don't want.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Frogger
Try it, sweetheart. |
Please don't Dubya. It would be suicide. That place is COLD where the oil is.
Besides think of the language difficulties.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
That's why the entire francophone population of Quebec would have to be liquidated. |
I was thinking of the English speakers. You were contemplating Bush doing this weren't you?
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Dr Strangelove
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I took the kids to see "Stuart Little 2" today and learned the real reason Canada isn't part of the US. Apparently Canadians just like to be alone.
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27-07-2002 15:19
. I'm sure they took over the capital, so they'd have better bargining power. Apparently, they also thought the US was going to back them, at least that is what the US Ambassador to Iraq insinuated (idiotic man he was).
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