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Martin the Dane
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Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000 time: 06:21
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I downloaded D7 and D7.1 and I must say that I like what I see.
There are a number of isues however.
- In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there.
- there is way to much clicking, when I select a unit and then press move, I have to first klick in the map view, to activate the window, and then place the waypoints.
- there must be some type of zone of control, I have on several ocations had TFs passing oneanother with very little combat loss. This occurs when I attempt to attack a TF by moving into the tile ocupied by it.
- It is unrealistic and quite anoying that you can claim a number of tiles by simply passing through them. This is OK as long as there is no (and in some cases very few) inhabitants, but generally you should have to remain some time in an area populated by a different nationality than the invading army. One solution could be to add an occupy/conquer order. The time used to cary out this order should then be calculated based on the atackers strength and the population. A note here is that liberating accupied tretory should be easier. A nice touch would be to make provinces have a chance of revolting if owner is not native.
- Naval units should not be able to conquer land tiles. Land there yes, but hold forein terrain no. And they should be penalized for fighting while docked/beached.
I might have some more later, especially on the interface, but this is all for now.
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001 time: 05:21
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quote: In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there. |
I know this one. One cumbersome bypass is to open the jar, edit the Carthago.xml scenario file and change the '-' in the map by 'd' (it replaces unreachable squares by desert squares). Only those on the left if the map caused problem for me (i.e. Africa, not the northeast part of the map). Gary didn't reproduce that, though. Mark, do you? I wonder if Gary has left something (a black tile?) out of the zip files or if the bug depends on the virtual machine used.
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001 time: 05:21
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I got it both on Win98 and WinXP, but I have two variants of sun's jvm in each case. I think I will just have to debug that one...
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001 time: 05:21
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I answered the point about Reinforcements in the Military thread there: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...131#post1526761
If anyone wants to discuss it, can we do it in that thread?
And I see the same thing as you on the Delenda scenario. I know what causes the bug (those - in the scen file), but don't understand how it comes to be not displayed. I will investigate.
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GabrielGL
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Just a note on task force loading .. if u have ships in a task force, u cannot load or unload units (well u can load one.. ) u shd be able to load the number of units which the ships will hold.. not a biggie, just an observation..
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001 time: 05:21
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quote: Also on the Jericho scenerio, I had cases where I would tell a warrior to pick up a population, which it did.. problem is it immediately forgot that it had it and lost it.. population just vanished.. never even got the little wagon/tent/whatever symbol .. |
I sometimes had things looking like that which were more of display bugs than real population loss (though gameplay-wise, it changes nothing, it is still a bug). Was the unit you wanted to add population to part of a TF? Sometimes, when this happens, the wagon doesn't show and the menu from the TF doesn't appear. Tou have to get the unit alone out of the TF to get the wagon and the menu to settle. If you come across the bug again, try that. If that doesn't work, it means there are actually two bugs...
Teleporting TFs: I'll try to reproduce that.
Incomplete map: I have corrected the code (a break instead of a continue in MapPanel.java), so I am relieved to hear that indeed Mark can reproduce the bug. If some VMs did continue instead of break, we would be in dire trouble...
Attila: Yes, this one hardly runs on most computers. I think it is because of the econ because there is hardly anything else and because I can blame someone else .
On naval units:
Yes, one boat takes one unit. I have some code with capacity of the boats, but it is not used and I should rewrite it and plug it so boats can carry an amount of people. Considering the elephant unit is actually very few people, even though an elephant is big, they shouldn't take as much place on a boat as legions.
And yes, there is no naval combat, which makes triremes invincible defenders, which in turn somewhat spoils the game. I am ready to code naval combat if anyone can provide me with a model. If you find this a big problem, I can always code something which we will throw away when a real model comes in (would be limited to trireme/galley fights, as that is totally different tactics from cannon-equipped ships, I also wouldn't take greek fire into account unless someone has ideas). I direct again to the military model thread for further comments.
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Martin the Dane
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Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000 time: 06:21
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I have an idea for a temporary fix to the naval units being invincible defenders problem: (I don't realy like it that much myself but it's better than nothing)
- Let naval units at sea fight each other as if they were ground units.
- Let naval defenders do a retreat from contested beaches without friendly ground troops. (Taking some losses to simulate ships not making it to the safty of sea befor the crew is killed.)
- Naval units not carrying ground-units cannot land on oponents teretory
Last edited by Martin the Dane on 12-12-2002 at 14:05
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GabrielGL
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Ref: the "lost settlers bug"
I have moved settlers with both TF and individual units.. in the case I am SURE of the unit was not TF and the population did drop by the added amount (1500 as I recall) .. the unit did not show the tent thingie and when the unit arrived at the new spot it would not bring up the menu entry to "colonize with" .. the population was truly lost.. I'll try to focus on this to reverify at future games and try to isolate the issue more clearly..
Ref: Naval Units capture
I fooled with this for a bit.. they r not invincible.. as the game is currently coded, you can bring a tryreme intot the port where the enemy is (this was without any defenders which I had already "killed" so I am not sure if it would work if enemy were present).. After u r in the port, simply highlight your navy TF/unit, and use "add to selected TF" and poof, they become your tryremes.. u can ROCK the Rome scenerio as either ROME or CARTHAGE by getting all 5 tryremes transporting troops..
Good thing the enemy doesn't use the tryreme.. ROME would have a ***** of a time living at all.. Rome should always lose this game I believe if equal intelligence were applied to both sides and tryreme units were utilized.. this is doubly true if u capture the tryremes that are in Rome itself.. Then add the "capture slaves" thingy that ppl have mentioned and Rome is in a pinch that they can never recover from.. Carthage simply outproduces them and steam-rolls em..
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GabrielGL
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I just recalled a major frustration.. the "lockup" of turn advance.. I would guess that 2 in 3 or maybe 3 in 4 of my attempts to play a scenerio (maybe more often) end up in this mode. The SYMPTOM is that I click the "END TURN" button and get a message that "have not completed the last turn" or somethiing close to that in the lower left corner of the main CLASH window.. once this happens I NEVER get a new turn it seems.. now a question.."Was it locked up anyway and the click just give the message, or did my pressing the button too fast trigger the lockup?" I of course can't tell .. I normally proceed fairly quickly .. for example just now I had it lock up 2x in a row trying the Jericho game .. in this case playing Ugarit.. (but i have had all scenerios lock up playing any player) .. I was on move 52 in this case but have had it lock up anywhere from the 2nd move to the nth move.. While it is in this "lockup" I can still do anything in the game so it is in the "events" thread I am guessing.. I can still pick up or put down "colonies" or reassign task forces, or change "next move" commands, etc.. but the "move in process" status never changes.. it is for practical purposes locked up and the game can procede no further.. I am puzzled that no on else gets this problem given that it happens to me VERY frequently.. no doubt u can guess that this is a major frustration..
Any thoughts on what is going on?
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001 time: 05:21
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The lockup most often happens because the program crashed somewhere. In most programs, it would just crash, but java allows us not to. There must be an "exception" (error) generated somewhere in the code, which freezes the turn handler. You can get a trace if you run with traces in a console (I think it is explained how to somewhere in this thread- I always have the traces because I run thru java command so I don't know how to get them from the jar). If you are interested in logging the traces and reporting them to us, it would be useful for debugging.
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GabrielGL
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Hmmm well i don't know about traces.. . if i can do it on my old pc without bringing it to it's knees I'll be happy to do it.. I have not seen instructions for doing it.. I looked through the generated text files generated during the game and found this in the econ file:
ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted
This was in the last group of move things in the last paragraph set in the file .. the item was headed:
-------- Army Supplies for Civ-----------------------
It seemed to be cycling through the civ cities and had done (in order) Ugarit, Ebla and Emar.. Emar is where it stopped.. I have included the full text of that section at the end of this message..
I found no indication of errors in the other files.. the turn indicator showed at the end of log.txt this message:
-----------------------------------------
Running Turn 52, 5745BC
Turn 52, 5745BC complete
-----------------------------------------
TEXT of last set of items in lock up round:
+++++ End economy indicator tests: +++++
----- Army Supplies For Civ------
Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 3.6326246
militaryPayRate for Ugarit = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 42.275146 / 1.8163123
cost20 = 15.6427
Army Supplies cost to build = 1.0
Army Supplies completion = 1.9966674
Warriors cost to build = 35.0
Warriors completion = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization
----- Army Supplies For Civ------
Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Ebla = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 11.31541 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization
----- Army Supplies For Civ------
Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Emar = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 10.071022 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Road Building cost to build = 1.0
Road Building completion = 0.0
education cost to build = 1.0
education completion = 23.46405
farm kapital cost to build = 1.0
farm kapital completion = 0.782135
production kapital cost to build = 1.0
production kapital completion = 1.56427
resources kapital cost to build = 1.0
resources kapital completion = 1.56427
services kapital cost to build = 1.0
services kapital completion = 2.346405
ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted
Specials kapital cost to build = 1.0
Specials kapital completion = 0.0
Combat Tech cost to build = 1.0
Combat Tech completion = 7.82135
Food Tech cost to build = 1.0
Food Tech completion = 7.82135
Manufacturing Tech cost to build = 1.0
Manufacturing Tech completion = 7.82135
Military Tech cost to build = 1.0
Military Tech completion = 7.82135
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GabrielGL
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Hmmm well i just ran it (Jericho file, playing Ugarit).. this time I got to move 44 and it hung again... here is the text file info:
last entry from log.txt
-----------------------------------------
Running Turn 45, 5780BC
Turn 45, 5780BC complete
-----------------------------------------
last from other seemingly uninteresting files:
-----------------------------------------
Running 45
-----------------------------------------
Running 45
Ugarit has moved to [1, 31] broken
error file contents:
java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
at java.util.HashMap$HashIterator.next(Unknown Source)
at game.economics.PublicSector.iterateThroughOrders(PublicSector.java:169)
at game.economics.PublicSector.executeCivGovtEconOrders(PublicSector.java:157)
at game.economics.PublicSector.executeGovtEconOrders(PublicSector.java:129)
at game.economics.SquareEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(SquareEconomy.java:494)
at game.economics.ProvEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(ProvEconomy.java:35)
at game.economics.CivEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(CivEconomy.java:210)
at game.economics.CivEconomy.getSpending(CivEconomy.java:67)
at game.ai.PlayerAI.displayEconomicsReport(PlayerAI.java:101)
at game.ai.PlayerAI.completeTurn(PlayerAI.java:76)
at game.manager.NextTurn.(NextTurn.java:40)
at game.manager.Turn.run(Turn.java:78)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Last items in the econ file:
+++++ End economy indicator tests: +++++
----- Army Supplies For Civ------
Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 5.631693
militaryPayRate for Ugarit = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 60.765175 / 2.8158464
cost20 = 8.473736
Army Supplies cost to build = 1.0
Army Supplies completion = 3.09378
Warriors cost to build = 35.0
Warriors completion = 0.0
Road Building cost to build = 1.0
Road Building completion = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization
----- Army Supplies For Civ------
Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Ebla = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 8.203319 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization
----- Army Supplies For Civ------
Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Emar = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 14.818601 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
education cost to build = 1.0
education completion = 8.473736
farm kapital cost to build = 1.0
farm kapital completion = 2.118434
production kapital cost to build = 1.0
production kapital completion = 4.236868
resources kapital cost to build = 1.0
resources kapital completion = 4.236868
services kapital cost to build = 1.0
services kapital completion = 6.3553023
ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted
Specials kapital cost to build = 1.0
Specials kapital completion = 0.0
Combat Tech cost to build = 1.0
Combat Tech completion = 0.0
Food Tech cost to build = 1.0
Food Tech completion = 0.0
Manufacturing Tech cost to build = 1.0
Manufacturing Tech completion = 0.0
Military Tech cost to build = 1.0
Military Tech completion = 0.0
I also have the bmp files from the text screens also showing the map and army positions and the econ setting/calc's at the time of the hang.. if u want em i'll email it to you..
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Mark_Everson
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Canton, MI
Jan 1970 time: 00:21
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Hi All:
The error file is the one that's the big thing for finding out what's wrong, although the other log files will sometimes help too. I think Gary must have set it up that error output is the default, since you see an error file. If you don't get an error file when the program bombs, you can do it the way it says on the download page:
quote: ATTENTION:If you follow these instructions and the the program "bombs", please try the following:
a. Create a directory called ClashDemo on C:\
b. Copy the ClashD7.jar file from your desktop into the new ClashDemo directory.
c. Extract that batch file in the zip to the new ClashDemo directory.
d. Run the batch file (double-click the file named "Run_D7.bat")
e. If it works, great. If not, please send Mark Everson the error message from the DOS window. |
quote: error file contents:
java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
at java.util.HashMap$HashIterator.next(Unknown Source)
at game.economics.PublicSector.iterateThroughOrders(PublicSector.java:169) |
It looks like the error this time is my fault, in the Econ code. I have seen that one before, or at least something similar, and thought I had it fixed. I'll try to fix it this weekend, though I've got a lot going on so I can't give a guarantee!
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GabrielGL
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UPDATE: Lost settlers
followup on the "settler lost civ's" issue.. I found out today a problem that may be related.. i picked up civs with a warrior (Jericho).. there were not many warriors so I noticed that another warrior got the "tent".. and !! he had the civs too...!! this may be like the "joins remote task force" issue.. this may be what happened before when i reported the "failure" to pick up civs but lost the population.. in that scenerio it is possible another warrior had them.. I did not notice so this may be it..
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GabrielGL
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MOre feedback .. hehe
The econ units don't add up.. this is persistent over all times.. .for example it says that there are 22 econ generated per turn.. in reality it shows a gain of maybe 10 or 12 in treasury after the turn..
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GabrielGL
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Another note.. .I CAN"T TURN OFF WARRIOR generation on the Jericho scenerio.. I have had it set to 0 forever but still warriors spit out once in a while.. dunno what the prob is..
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GabrielGL
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I can also confirm that RIGHT CLICK doesn't cancel unbuilt road orders when u use it.. many times i have tried it.. it worked once.. hehe
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GabrielGL
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AI.. No problem... just was for your info.. if already known is fine... how do I edit an xml file (ie what tool)?
wrt econ sums.. I take the value at the top of the econ orders.. it changes as i change orders so I assumed it was ok.. the maint. value is there at all times and is the program entered value.. I don't try to edit that number.. the number I compare it to is the "end of turn" value before and after the move.. seems the value before plus the value at the top of the econ orders should be the value at the next "end of turn".. maybe I am misunderstanding what these numbers are..
wrt warrrior orders.. it was on Jericho.. I had cut off the warrior build (set to 0).. it built at least 2 warriors after that.. I did not ever give a square or province a build order.. maybe the game does and it keeps giving the build some min money until the build is complete. It happens almost everytime I play it so I can reproduce it easily..
Perhaps I am doing the road deal wrong.. the situation is always the same.. my pc lags a bit so I'll be building roads and make an error when the click doesn't register in the correct square.. when the wrong segment (blue line) appears, I immediately try the right click.. what specific click process should I use? The first time I tried it it worked.. maybe I was just by accident in the right place.. It's never worked for me since.. do I need to click a certain square? I may be just dense here..
Did u figure out a fix for the move hangs?
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