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Martin the Dane is offline Martin the Dane
Prince
Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 09-12-2002 19:54 Visit Martin the Dane's homepage!
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I downloaded D7 and D7.1 and I must say that I like what I see.

There are a number of isues however.


  1. In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there.
  2. there is way to much clicking, when I select a unit and then press move, I have to first klick in the map view, to activate the window, and then place the waypoints.
  3. there must be some type of zone of control, I have on several ocations had TFs passing oneanother with very little combat loss. This occurs when I attempt to attack a TF by moving into the tile ocupied by it.
  4. It is unrealistic and quite anoying that you can claim a number of tiles by simply passing through them. This is OK as long as there is no (and in some cases very few) inhabitants, but generally you should have to remain some time in an area populated by a different nationality than the invading army. One solution could be to add an occupy/conquer order. The time used to cary out this order should then be calculated based on the atackers strength and the population. A note here is that liberating accupied tretory should be easier. A nice touch would be to make provinces have a chance of revolting if owner is not native.
  5. Naval units should not be able to conquer land tiles. Land there yes, but hold forein terrain no. And they should be penalized for fighting while docked/beached.


I might have some more later, especially on the interface, but this is all for now.

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 10-12-2002 06:35 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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Thanks for the comments, Martin. Glad to hear you like things in general .

I basically agree with your criticisms and suggestions. Some of the things you don't like were just kludgey first implementations that we knew we'd have to refine. I don't think we need zoc included for things to work right, but I've been wrong before. I'll put your comments on the todo list. Please go ahead and put any detialed suggestions for fixes/changes in the relevant threads maybe 10 to 30 threads down. (if you can't see all of them make sure you have 'view all threads' set, rather than 'last 10 days' or something similar. You can also find them off the web page.)

LDiCesare is offline LDiCesare
King
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 10-12-2002 21:15
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quote:
In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there.

I know this one. One cumbersome bypass is to open the jar, edit the Carthago.xml scenario file and change the '-' in the map by 'd' (it replaces unreachable squares by desert squares). Only those on the left if the map caused problem for me (i.e. Africa, not the northeast part of the map). Gary didn't reproduce that, though. Mark, do you? I wonder if Gary has left something (a black tile?) out of the zip files or if the bug depends on the virtual machine used.

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 11-12-2002 06:44 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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I don't see any problem in Delenda. I marvel that I read Martin's #1 and didn't say "I don't see that". So its really good you commented on it. My guess is it must be virtual-machine dependent, because Delenda works ok when I run it from the jar file on the desktop, which shouldn't have access to any of the other resources I might have. I'm on win98.

LDiCesare is offline LDiCesare
King
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 11-12-2002 13:49
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I got it both on Win98 and WinXP, but I have two variants of sun's jvm in each case. I think I will just have to debug that one...

Martin the Dane is offline Martin the Dane
Prince
Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 11-12-2002 16:10 Visit Martin the Dane's homepage!
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I just updated my javaWM from sun, and I still have it. Oh by the way I just attached an image of the affected area.


I have a few more bugs to report

  1. Tech-level is reported with a lot of digits (eg. 2.1000001) This number is not correct as it will stay there untill it increases above 2.2
  2. The change provice menu that pops-up when right-klicking the main map, is not destroyed when after clicking "OK" or "Cancel" and shows up on the alt-tab menu in Windows XP, if the game is active the menu automatically goes to the back, but it is still there, and works fine.


And a couple of suggestions

The issue of the #/Turn column. This gives no meaning to the player, if he/she cannot see how much is acumulated (where that applies) and how much is neaded.

To take an example: (road building)
At turn 23 I collect 6 in taxes.
20% costs 1 and yields 1.2/turn.

Is this 1.2 road-sections per turn or 1.2 stoneslabs, 1.2 buckets of sand? You get my point: what does a road cost? Oh and how much more do I need to complete it?

The same goes for military units and technology.

Reinforcement The game needs some form of reinforcement I have the following two suggestions.
  1. Add survivors after battel to other units. (or combining units)
  2. Reinforcement build command. This would either meen that the unit remains in a province or the reinforcement moves to the unit with risk of taking losses on the way.

Attachment: image1.gif
This has been downloaded 57 time(s).

LDiCesare is offline LDiCesare
King
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 11-12-2002 18:20
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I answered the point about Reinforcements in the Military thread there: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...131#post1526761
If anyone wants to discuss it, can we do it in that thread?
And I see the same thing as you on the Delenda scenario. I know what causes the bug (those - in the scen file), but don't understand how it comes to be not displayed. I will investigate.

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 01:41
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Just a note on task force loading .. if u have ships in a task force, u cannot load or unload units (well u can load one.. ) u shd be able to load the number of units which the ships will hold.. not a biggie, just an observation..

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
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Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 01:58
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Note on comp speed.. I am in the stone age with a 233Mhz Pent II (no not 3 or 4 ) and 100Meg of mem and a few gig of hd space.. [hell i just got rid of a perfectly functional 8086 with 16k of mem and a 300k hd running a whopping 4.3mhz.. hehe] I can play the 7.1 stuff except for the attilla one.. of course i have to be patient..

The attila one is just too much for me.. I can get it set up, but as soon as i start a move, that's about it.. hehe.. I'm not complaining really, just letting u know.. for a prog with no real graphics it is very demanding of the hardware.. i guess i need that new Sun Server..

BTW the road cancel deal (right click) has worked for me and it has failed for me.. there are problems with it i am guessing.. just fyi..

Also on the Jericho scenerio, I had cases where I would tell a warrior to pick up a population, which it did.. problem is it immediately forgot that it had it and lost it.. population just vanished.. never even got the little wagon/tent/whatever symbol ..

This would often be when i was relocating populations, so I probably had several "settlers" .. seemed to be rather random to me tho.. did not spend time to figure out when/why.. just another fyi..

Martin the Dane is offline Martin the Dane
Prince
Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 02:40 Visit Martin the Dane's homepage!
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I have had a number of teleportations happening at random in Delenda. What happends is that when a taskforce is split into individual units, all except one of the units ends op at the previously selected tile.

The only thing I have been able to figure out is that there has to be more than one TF at both ends.

Another thing is that naval combat seems to be nonexsiting after updating to 7.1 or rather naval units just don't fight, and can't be killed.

Martin the Dane is offline Martin the Dane
Prince
Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 05:24 Visit Martin the Dane's homepage!
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Update I just had the teleportation happening again. Two large TF's Both with non-numerical names and in two different cities. When I split one of the TF's as first action in that turn (I had checked battel reports for both TF's as they had just eradikated defending TFs) all but the unit with the nonnumerical TF-name got teleported to the other city, and the TF that took that city got highlighted. But was not selected properly.

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 06:07 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin the Dane
In the Cartehage vr. Rome scenario only half of the map is vissble on the "full screen map", so it's rather cumbersom to play, when you have to click on on each tile to se if there is a unit there.


Now that Martin gave the image of what the error is, I have to admit that I do see it afterall. I just never tried moving into it. . . So it appears to be a game bug rather than a VM one! Sorry for any confusion I generated!

quote:
The issue of the #/Turn column. This gives no meaning to the player, if he/she cannot see how much is acumulated (where that applies) and how much is neaded.

To take an example: (road building)
At turn 23 I collect 6 in taxes.
20% costs 1 and yields 1.2/turn.

Is this 1.2 road-sections per turn or 1.2 stoneslabs, 1.2 buckets of sand? You get my point: what does a road cost? Oh and how much more do I need to complete it?


The #/Turn amounts are in fractions of a unit for military units. For everything else, they are in the raw units that the economy uses. Those units are arbitrarily sized right now. With the new GUI we will make these more meaningful, and also show the progress so far.

Thanks for all the other comments guys!

LDiCesare is offline LDiCesare
King
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 13:20
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quote:
Also on the Jericho scenerio, I had cases where I would tell a warrior to pick up a population, which it did.. problem is it immediately forgot that it had it and lost it.. population just vanished.. never even got the little wagon/tent/whatever symbol ..

I sometimes had things looking like that which were more of display bugs than real population loss (though gameplay-wise, it changes nothing, it is still a bug). Was the unit you wanted to add population to part of a TF? Sometimes, when this happens, the wagon doesn't show and the menu from the TF doesn't appear. Tou have to get the unit alone out of the TF to get the wagon and the menu to settle. If you come across the bug again, try that. If that doesn't work, it means there are actually two bugs...

Teleporting TFs: I'll try to reproduce that.

Incomplete map: I have corrected the code (a break instead of a continue in MapPanel.java), so I am relieved to hear that indeed Mark can reproduce the bug. If some VMs did continue instead of break, we would be in dire trouble...

Attila: Yes, this one hardly runs on most computers. I think it is because of the econ because there is hardly anything else and because I can blame someone else .

On naval units:
Yes, one boat takes one unit. I have some code with capacity of the boats, but it is not used and I should rewrite it and plug it so boats can carry an amount of people. Considering the elephant unit is actually very few people, even though an elephant is big, they shouldn't take as much place on a boat as legions.
And yes, there is no naval combat, which makes triremes invincible defenders, which in turn somewhat spoils the game. I am ready to code naval combat if anyone can provide me with a model. If you find this a big problem, I can always code something which we will throw away when a real model comes in (would be limited to trireme/galley fights, as that is totally different tactics from cannon-equipped ships, I also wouldn't take greek fire into account unless someone has ideas). I direct again to the military model thread for further comments.

Martin the Dane is offline Martin the Dane
Prince
Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 13:57 Visit Martin the Dane's homepage!
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I have an idea for a temporary fix to the naval units being invincible defenders problem: (I don't realy like it that much myself but it's better than nothing)


  • Let naval units at sea fight each other as if they were ground units.
  • Let naval defenders do a retreat from contested beaches without friendly ground troops. (Taking some losses to simulate ships not making it to the safty of sea befor the crew is killed.)
  • Naval units not carrying ground-units cannot land on oponents teretory

Last edited by Martin the Dane on 12-12-2002 at 14:05

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 16:07
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Ref: the "lost settlers bug"
I have moved settlers with both TF and individual units.. in the case I am SURE of the unit was not TF and the population did drop by the added amount (1500 as I recall) .. the unit did not show the tent thingie and when the unit arrived at the new spot it would not bring up the menu entry to "colonize with" .. the population was truly lost.. I'll try to focus on this to reverify at future games and try to isolate the issue more clearly..

Ref: Naval Units capture
I fooled with this for a bit.. they r not invincible.. as the game is currently coded, you can bring a tryreme intot the port where the enemy is (this was without any defenders which I had already "killed" so I am not sure if it would work if enemy were present).. After u r in the port, simply highlight your navy TF/unit, and use "add to selected TF" and poof, they become your tryremes.. u can ROCK the Rome scenerio as either ROME or CARTHAGE by getting all 5 tryremes transporting troops..

Good thing the enemy doesn't use the tryreme.. ROME would have a ***** of a time living at all.. Rome should always lose this game I believe if equal intelligence were applied to both sides and tryreme units were utilized.. this is doubly true if u capture the tryremes that are in Rome itself.. Then add the "capture slaves" thingy that ppl have mentioned and Rome is in a pinch that they can never recover from.. Carthage simply outproduces them and steam-rolls em..

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 17:52
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I just recalled a major frustration.. the "lockup" of turn advance.. I would guess that 2 in 3 or maybe 3 in 4 of my attempts to play a scenerio (maybe more often) end up in this mode. The SYMPTOM is that I click the "END TURN" button and get a message that "have not completed the last turn" or somethiing close to that in the lower left corner of the main CLASH window.. once this happens I NEVER get a new turn it seems.. now a question.."Was it locked up anyway and the click just give the message, or did my pressing the button too fast trigger the lockup?" I of course can't tell .. I normally proceed fairly quickly .. for example just now I had it lock up 2x in a row trying the Jericho game .. in this case playing Ugarit.. (but i have had all scenerios lock up playing any player) .. I was on move 52 in this case but have had it lock up anywhere from the 2nd move to the nth move.. While it is in this "lockup" I can still do anything in the game so it is in the "events" thread I am guessing.. I can still pick up or put down "colonies" or reassign task forces, or change "next move" commands, etc.. but the "move in process" status never changes.. it is for practical purposes locked up and the game can procede no further.. I am puzzled that no on else gets this problem given that it happens to me VERY frequently.. no doubt u can guess that this is a major frustration..

Any thoughts on what is going on?

LDiCesare is offline LDiCesare
King
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 18:54
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The lockup most often happens because the program crashed somewhere. In most programs, it would just crash, but java allows us not to. There must be an "exception" (error) generated somewhere in the code, which freezes the turn handler. You can get a trace if you run with traces in a console (I think it is explained how to somewhere in this thread- I always have the traces because I run thru java command so I don't know how to get them from the jar). If you are interested in logging the traces and reporting them to us, it would be useful for debugging.

Martin the Dane is offline Martin the Dane
Prince
Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 12-12-2002 21:54 Visit Martin the Dane's homepage!
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That's to easy

I just loaded up a couple of games and lo and behold, I was able to capture all the oponents units, as long as I had a unit in the same tile.

How to reproduce:


  1. Get one or more of you units (preferably naval, as they don't fight) into a tile with foreign units.
  2. Select one of your own TFs
  3. Right-klick on any unit in that tile
  4. Now click on either "Assign unit to new TF" or "Assign unit to selected TF"

Woila the unit is now yours.

I also got some more qlues to the teleportation isue. There does not have to be any friendly units at the recieving end. Sometimes the Unit-window is not displaying the units and TFs in the selected Tile (I'm not yet sure excately under what conditions this happends). If this happends assigning any units in the units-window to new TFs will cause them to be teleported to the selected Tile. You can however only do this once as the units-window and the map now displays the same Tile.

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 13-12-2002 04:14
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Hmmm well i don't know about traces.. . if i can do it on my old pc without bringing it to it's knees I'll be happy to do it.. I have not seen instructions for doing it.. I looked through the generated text files generated during the game and found this in the econ file:

ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted

This was in the last group of move things in the last paragraph set in the file .. the item was headed:
-------- Army Supplies for Civ-----------------------
It seemed to be cycling through the civ cities and had done (in order) Ugarit, Ebla and Emar.. Emar is where it stopped.. I have included the full text of that section at the end of this message..

I found no indication of errors in the other files.. the turn indicator showed at the end of log.txt this message:
-----------------------------------------
Running Turn 52, 5745BC
Turn 52, 5745BC complete
-----------------------------------------


TEXT of last set of items in lock up round:

+++++ End economy indicator tests: +++++


----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 3.6326246
militaryPayRate for Ugarit = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 42.275146 / 1.8163123
cost20 = 15.6427
Army Supplies cost to build = 1.0
Army Supplies completion = 1.9966674
Warriors cost to build = 35.0
Warriors completion = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Ebla = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 11.31541 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Emar = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 10.071022 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Road Building cost to build = 1.0
Road Building completion = 0.0
education cost to build = 1.0
education completion = 23.46405
farm kapital cost to build = 1.0
farm kapital completion = 0.782135
production kapital cost to build = 1.0
production kapital completion = 1.56427
resources kapital cost to build = 1.0
resources kapital completion = 1.56427
services kapital cost to build = 1.0
services kapital completion = 2.346405
ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted
Specials kapital cost to build = 1.0
Specials kapital completion = 0.0
Combat Tech cost to build = 1.0
Combat Tech completion = 7.82135
Food Tech cost to build = 1.0
Food Tech completion = 7.82135
Manufacturing Tech cost to build = 1.0
Manufacturing Tech completion = 7.82135
Military Tech cost to build = 1.0
Military Tech completion = 7.82135

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 13-12-2002 04:58
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Hmmm well i just ran it (Jericho file, playing Ugarit).. this time I got to move 44 and it hung again... here is the text file info:

last entry from log.txt
-----------------------------------------
Running Turn 45, 5780BC
Turn 45, 5780BC complete
-----------------------------------------
last from other seemingly uninteresting files:

-----------------------------------------
Running 45

-----------------------------------------
Running 45
Ugarit has moved to [1, 31] broken

error file contents:
java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
at java.util.HashMap$HashIterator.next(Unknown Source)
at game.economics.PublicSector.iterateThroughOrders(PublicSector.java:169)
at game.economics.PublicSector.executeCivGovtEconOrders(PublicSector.java:157)
at game.economics.PublicSector.executeGovtEconOrders(PublicSector.java:129)
at game.economics.SquareEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(SquareEconomy.java:494)
at game.economics.ProvEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(ProvEconomy.java:35)
at game.economics.CivEconomy.executeGovtEconOrders(CivEconomy.java:210)
at game.economics.CivEconomy.getSpending(CivEconomy.java:67)
at game.ai.PlayerAI.displayEconomicsReport(PlayerAI.java:101)
at game.ai.PlayerAI.completeTurn(PlayerAI.java:76)
at game.manager.NextTurn.(NextTurn.java:40)
at game.manager.Turn.run(Turn.java:78)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Last items in the econ file:
+++++ End economy indicator tests: +++++


----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 5.631693
militaryPayRate for Ugarit = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 60.765175 / 2.8158464
cost20 = 8.473736
Army Supplies cost to build = 1.0
Army Supplies completion = 3.09378
Warriors cost to build = 35.0
Warriors completion = 0.0
Road Building cost to build = 1.0
Road Building completion = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Ebla = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 8.203319 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
Running economicsTurn() in Civilization

----- Army Supplies For Civ------

Army Supplies Needed (existing army) = 0.0
militaryPayRate for Emar = 100.0
Army Supplies Available/Needed From Economy = 14.818601 / 0.0
cost20 = 0.0
education cost to build = 1.0
education completion = 8.473736
farm kapital cost to build = 1.0
farm kapital completion = 2.118434
production kapital cost to build = 1.0
production kapital completion = 4.236868
resources kapital cost to build = 1.0
resources kapital completion = 4.236868
services kapital cost to build = 1.0
services kapital completion = 6.3553023
ERROR InfrastructureInfo: InfraType for Specials kapital not found in canBeCompleted
Specials kapital cost to build = 1.0
Specials kapital completion = 0.0
Combat Tech cost to build = 1.0
Combat Tech completion = 0.0
Food Tech cost to build = 1.0
Food Tech completion = 0.0
Manufacturing Tech cost to build = 1.0
Manufacturing Tech completion = 0.0
Military Tech cost to build = 1.0
Military Tech completion = 0.0

I also have the bmp files from the text screens also showing the map and army positions and the econ setting/calc's at the time of the hang.. if u want em i'll email it to you..

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 13-12-2002 07:10 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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Hi All:

The error file is the one that's the big thing for finding out what's wrong, although the other log files will sometimes help too. I think Gary must have set it up that error output is the default, since you see an error file. If you don't get an error file when the program bombs, you can do it the way it says on the download page:

quote:
ATTENTION:If you follow these instructions and the the program "bombs", please try the following:
a. Create a directory called ClashDemo on C:\
b. Copy the ClashD7.jar file from your desktop into the new ClashDemo directory.
c. Extract that batch file in the zip to the new ClashDemo directory.
d. Run the batch file (double-click the file named "Run_D7.bat")
e. If it works, great. If not, please send Mark Everson the error message from the DOS window.


quote:
error file contents:
java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
at java.util.HashMap$HashIterator.next(Unknown Source)
at game.economics.PublicSector.iterateThroughOrders(PublicSector.java:169)


It looks like the error this time is my fault, in the Econ code. I have seen that one before, or at least something similar, and thought I had it fixed. I'll try to fix it this weekend, though I've got a lot going on so I can't give a guarantee!

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 13-12-2002 07:38 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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BTW, treating naval combat in a similar fashion to land combat is fine by me. We could obvioulsy make it very complicated, but starting simple is what I think is best anyway. Plus its good not to piss off the playtesters

The two types of combat should interact in some ways, like carried troops being able to fight in some circumstances, as they did in the naval engagements of the Punic Wars. Another example is to cover for instance the combat effectiveness that naval mobility can give a land battle. I'm with Laurent. . . Why don't we start up a discussion in the Mil thread (or maybe start a Naval combat thread) on a simple starting model to use. Martin's looks like a decent start to me, but we need a few more details.

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 14-12-2002 02:05
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UPDATE: Lost settlers

followup on the "settler lost civ's" issue.. I found out today a problem that may be related.. i picked up civs with a warrior (Jericho).. there were not many warriors so I noticed that another warrior got the "tent".. and !! he had the civs too...!! this may be like the "joins remote task force" issue.. this may be what happened before when i reported the "failure" to pick up civs but lost the population.. in that scenerio it is possible another warrior had them.. I did not notice so this may be it..

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 14-12-2002 19:14
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Comment on AI..
The AI needs to be MUCH MORE AGRESSIVE on keeping it's territory.. there is no way they should allow free taking of their territory.. or at the very least they must capture it back when u leave.. I believe now that I can win the Jericho scene as any player with almost never a loss.. I need to verify this.. (if the darn thing will let me get thru without the lockup ) This and the Rome/Carthage scenerios may be great ones to sharpen the AI.. they are substantive enuf not to be boring , but simple enuf that u don't get lost in a lot of detail..

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 14-12-2002 20:03
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MOre feedback .. hehe

The econ units don't add up.. this is persistent over all times.. .for example it says that there are 22 econ generated per turn.. in reality it shows a gain of maybe 10 or 12 in treasury after the turn..

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 14-12-2002 20:04
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Another note.. .I CAN"T TURN OFF WARRIOR generation on the Jericho scenerio.. I have had it set to 0 forever but still warriors spit out once in a while.. dunno what the prob is..

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 14-12-2002 20:36
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I can also confirm that RIGHT CLICK doesn't cancel unbuilt road orders when u use it.. many times i have tried it.. it worked once.. hehe

Mark_Everson is offline Mark_Everson
Clash of Civilizations Project Lead
Canton, MI
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 14-12-2002 21:51 Visit Mark_Everson's homepage!
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Hey Gabriel:

quote:
Originally posted by GabrielGL
Comment on AI..
The AI needs to be MUCH MORE AGRESSIVE on keeping it's territory.. there is no way they should allow free taking of their territory.. or at the very least they must capture it back when u leave..


Yeah, we know the current AI has some serious defects. You can actually change the things you rightly say are problems in the xml scenario file. There are parameters that give likelihood to attack foreign cities vs foreign squares that aren't cities. I guess in Jericho its all city an no percentage for plain squares. If you want to put real effort into it, I can get you the info needed to do so.

We haven't put a lot of work into fine-tuning this stuff since it is only placeholder AI until the real AI gets implemented. If you check down the threads, you'll find the AI thread, and can see what we have planned long-term.

quote:
The econ units don't add up.. this is persistent over all times.. .for example it says that there are 22 econ generated per turn.. in reality it shows a gain of maybe 10 or 12 in treasury after the turn..


Are you sure you aren't missing something like army maintenance costs? What specific part of the game are you getting the mismatch in? If its present in startup on any scenario, let me know which one, and I'll look into it.

quote:
I CAN"T TURN OFF WARRIOR generation on the Jericho scenerio.. I have had it set to 0 forever but still warriors spit out once in a while.. dunno what the prob is..


I don't know about this one. May be a bug, or just held-over orders in one square somewhere that you put in and forgot about. . .

quote:
can also confirm that RIGHT CLICK doesn't cancel unbuilt road orders when u use it.. many times i have tried it.. it worked once.. hehe


Well, it's worked every time I've tried it. Can you give a specific set of actions under which it doesn't work? Maybe the wrong part of the gui has the focus?

GabrielGL is offline GabrielGL
Settler

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 15-12-2002 04:00
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AI.. No problem... just was for your info.. if already known is fine... how do I edit an xml file (ie what tool)?

wrt econ sums.. I take the value at the top of the econ orders.. it changes as i change orders so I assumed it was ok.. the maint. value is there at all times and is the program entered value.. I don't try to edit that number.. the number I compare it to is the "end of turn" value before and after the move.. seems the value before plus the value at the top of the econ orders should be the value at the next "end of turn".. maybe I am misunderstanding what these numbers are..

wrt warrrior orders.. it was on Jericho.. I had cut off the warrior build (set to 0).. it built at least 2 warriors after that.. I did not ever give a square or province a build order.. maybe the game does and it keeps giving the build some min money until the build is complete. It happens almost everytime I play it so I can reproduce it easily..

Perhaps I am doing the road deal wrong.. the situation is always the same.. my pc lags a bit so I'll be building roads and make an error when the click doesn't register in the correct square.. when the wrong segment (blue line) appears, I immediately try the right click.. what specific click process should I use? The first time I tried it it worked.. maybe I was just by accident in the right place.. It's never worked for me since.. do I need to click a certain square? I may be just dense here..

Did u figure out a fix for the move hangs?

Martin the Dane is offline Martin the Dane
Prince
Aarhus, Denmark
Feb 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 15-12-2002 05:08 Visit Martin the Dane's homepage!
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An update on the taleprotation/disapearance issue:

I noticed that when clicking on a combat event in the eventwindow the focus in the main map window shifts to the combat-location, while the unit window remains on the tile where the curently selected TF is. When rightclicking on a unit in the unit window the popup menu might display, if so, unexpected things will happen if a menuitem is selected.

I have had units disapearing and units being teleported.

 
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