17-08-2002 18:44									#31
	Tired of ads?

Regarding War Weariness again (or whatever term that gets choosen): I really like the idea in some sort of implementation that citizens away from their jobs and normal life make life for those that are left behind more difficult. However, another idea...

Up until now, all war weariness issues center around the effects on the home front, but wouldn't there also be some effect on the drafted soldiers themselves? I'm thinking of homesickness effects, or general weariness from too much war. One way to depict that is (for example) a timer that will decrease moral of troops progressively when they don't get enough rest or are too far from their home province. Possible ways of countering this is giving them shore leave for a turn or three, in which they can both stop the counter coming from homesickness, and gain extra bonusses to their normal moral.

If I understand it correctly, moral goes down when in battle, and only builds up slowly when a troop is not doing anything, maybe you can have an extra command 'shore leave' that will make the unit unavailable (not even for defense) for e.g. 3 turns, but when it returns it has its normal morale again, isn't homesick anymore, and is fully healed.

DeepO

	17-08-2002 19:45									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Some of your links are non-complete (ie. features, yadeyadeyada)...

I have signed up for those forums...

One thing I forgot to mention with my ideas before... I dont know what you see a single unit as, but I would only require support (food) when moving a "stack" around... trust that a single "unit" can fend for itself.

I definitely see food support as a very good idea... it opens up the possibility of a very large army being "defeated" due to having their food supply cut off.

It is another preventitive from an army travelling way inland, or fortifying on a mountain top in the middle of enemy territory. I read a little about your citizenry types - perhaps the troops could require different amounts even? (I expect cavalry to eat more [because of horses] than infantry).

Which makes me think of an interesting tactic. Lets say that two kingdoms are side by side, but one person is wary and so they "Torch" a terrain band, providing a "firebreak". Such an act would definitely be costly for the player if it is part of their territory, (but if the territory is neutral little cost...) but the point is that a band of terrain that was "infertile" would require an extreme amount of food support to penetrate. Kind of like the desert protected Bathsheba against attack for so long...all you had to do was hold the enemy off for 24 hours, and then they had to turn back or die of dehydration. (that is until our light horsemen kicked ass).

Just to clarify my point, when support diminishes not the entire army is "sent home", only those that cannot be supported.

I cannot seem to find any code repositories on your site (I thought this was open source project?)? Is any tech-tree available as yet? I cant seem to find the information I am looking for...

I have added you to my AIM so next time you are online... oh I will PM you too.

	17-08-2002 22:27									#33
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I like the food concept and stuff, but I don't know if we should have a straight food upkeep cost.

After all, a small army can live off the land and the 'courtesy' of the people there with out causing too much damage to the overall food supply there. However, larger number of troops would, and thus would need food support.

Of course determining food upkeep cost would depend on how we roughly define the size of one unit. Or we could make it arbitrary, like say: The first 3 units in a province require no food support. Every unit after that requires one food 'unit'. (bushel?) Or think of some complex and really cool equation that would do the same thing only 'better'. Unless of course you order them (ei let them) ravish the country side, but after they take all the supplies, they' will starve.

Then you have the whole wagon train and supply line comming in. Might be worth it (hit and run tactics against the wagon train or supply line will slowly reduce the enemy's moral and strength), or might increase MM to the nth degree.

	18-08-2002 11:26									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

First we must ask ourselves what are we trying to attain by having a food upkeep requirement for large "armies"?

- It provides a more realistic approach, requiring that an army be supplied, and cannot stray too far from home provinces, or if cut off from them, are in a lot of trouble unless the link is established.

Either a system I have previously suggested could be used - requiring a "safe passage", within a reasonable distance, and with "efficiency [food] loss" based upon distance travelled. (Not to mention provincial surplus required). It would require that not only is an army large, but that it is supplied and that supply is kept up. I think this is the best solution, and could be further clarified. It adds some form of seige mentality, and that an army cannot realistically charge half way across a nation without provisions.

Another way of doing it would be to require the construction of "supply depots" which provide a radius of said food supply (and potentially ammunition [ie. like artillery shells]). All units within the radius are supported by the capacity of the supply depot. The supply depot does NO collection, but only distributes the surplus of the empire. I would recommend that each supply depot is seen as a "node" in a chain, and so if you take out one supply depot, then the others (further down the chain) are considered to be "not supplied". Thuis would make it easier to be cut off from supplies in the way that all that has to be attacked/defended is the one supply depot. In my mind however this isnt as fun.

In any case, the distribution distance and efficiency of food should improve with technologies such as refigeration, railroad etc etc. And eventually, I would imagine a large army can carry dehydrated chemical equivalents, so they would require no food support.

I will write some more threads now.

	19-08-2002 19:04									#35
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Good comments here! I think some of the notions are too modern for our purposes, but the ideas themselves can easily enough be adapted to medieval times....

-=Vel=-

	20-08-2002 09:06									#36
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well obviously I need to know more about the actual substance of this game!