18-09-2002 05:58									#61
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Folks SP3 is argueably the best Brigade-sized combat game...

But panzer general is not nearly as good as

http://pub131.ezboard.com/fjpspanzersfrm19

Pacific general. Which is also free for download.

	19-09-2002 12:36									#62
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Sten,

Yeah, WWII. Thanks for catching the typo.

	29-09-2002 21:51									#63
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FREE WARGAME DOWNLOADS

Including:

Panzer General II (now has more than 250 user scenarios and campaigns - at the Wargamer.com)

Steel Panthers (the original)

Star General

Pacific General

and many more. . .

http://abandonwar.oldgames.ca/

Have fun!

	30-09-2002 00:50									#64
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc What's a good game for a person who has never played a wargame before? I'm looking to ease myself into the genera.

Total Annihilation hands down. I find that very easy to learn. Also, if having resources is a problem for you, try Force Commander, where there is no micromanagment (You need command points to order more units, and you only get command points by destroying/killing enemy units or occuping enemy buildings).

	30-09-2002 01:02									#65
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I don't think many would class TA as a wargame.

	01-10-2002 07:31									#66
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I don't think many would class TA as a wargame.

How so? You got two sides, both are at war. Why isn't is a war game?

Ohh... you're thinking WWII type, well, I don't see the difference anyway.

	01-10-2002 15:29									#67
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There are all kinds of games that portray war and one of them is computer and board games that are categorised as wargames. While they are starting to agree now that it doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a hexmap, wargames are generally focussed on making as honest a re-enactment of a particular battle or war as possible, given the restraints of making the rules playable. RTS games are all about fast paced action, balance and fun with no attempt to stick to reality.

	01-10-2002 16:09									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 How so? You got two sides, both are at war. Why isn't is a war game?

That means, hm, Risk is a wargame.

	01-10-2002 16:33									#69
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Yeah there is a distinct difference between TA (genre RTS) and Panzer/People's/Pacific General, or any of the computer wargames mentioned in this thread.

	01-10-2002 20:37									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That means, hm, Risk is a wargame.

I'd say it was pretty close. Grossly oversimplified in order to be quick and easy to play, but there are strong similarities.

	03-10-2002 10:01									#71
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I would say the luck element is too heavy in Risk for it to have any resemblence of wargames at all.

We hear of "Rambo" defenders all the time.

	03-10-2002 15:24									#72
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That is a curse that all games which rely on dice or odds can have. Sooner or later someone just keeps rolling the lucky number.

	03-10-2002 23:04									#73
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I was on that pacific general forum a few months ago. That game is free to download . Lots of fun too.


Pacific general outdoes panzer general in that you can make your own scenario's and such. Also the including of small nations like Sweden, Yugoslavia, and Portugal into the game was a big improvement. I enjoy going up against the blitzkrieg with scattered resources

	04-10-2002 01:42									#74
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory I was on that pacific general forum a few months ago...

Looking for a Richard Simmons driving a tank jpg no doubt.


I haven't checked out Pacific General, thanks for the reminder.

	04-10-2002 04:48									#75
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Pacific general is way better. More equipment and the scenario editor.


weeee!

Attachment: wee.bmp.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	04-10-2002 04:50									#76
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only drawback with the pacgen download is the installation which is confusing and in .Rar format. If you need help just ask. It took me about 6 hours to finally figure it out.

	04-10-2002 09:31									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold That is a curse that all games which rely on dice or odds can have. Sooner or later someone just keeps rolling the lucky number.

Hmm, it largely depends. In Risk, you can lose 10 armies when attacking a lone defender with 30 armies. Most wargames have combat resolution tables that take these kinds of odds into consideration.

Granted, you don't get 30:1 odds in most wargames, but a 5:1 gives you a very good shot at winning. At worst, you don't lose any: maybe a DR (defender retreat) or NE (no effect).

	04-10-2002 16:21									#78
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Yes thats true, but in those sorts of wargames you only get one shot per unit per turn, so if you bounce a handful of consecutive 5:1 wins that's your entire turn's offensive ruined just the same. The combat in Risk has some very basic odds built in to determine if you get 1, 2 or 3 dice, so its not just pure luck even though it only goes as far as having odds for 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 and 3:2 and unlimited attacks. There are strategic objectives to shoot for like owning a whole continent and strategic choke points that are sensible to defend at.

To my mind that makes it a very very simple wargame but I can see why anyone might disagree. Now if you threw a dice to see how many spaces you could move before attacking or something I would relegate it to the category of family boardgame.

	05-10-2002 08:22									#79
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In Risk, the best you can get is 3 dice versus 1, but that's not even 3:1 odds because you lose on equal numbers.

I'd say Campaign starts to fall in the wargame genre.