08-08-2002 23:03									#61
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Punishment Spheres is a henious invention. It must not be use in any case, since the sanctions done to criminals are far worst than the crimes themselves. I repeat : Punishment Spheres is a henious invention, and I'll do everything in my power to avoid such atrocities.
As a humanist, I stand for the developpement or less radicals countermeasures against criminality. It is an obvious thing that criminality comes from over-exploitation of people and boredom, and thus, if we can provide work, recreation, games, and maintain a decent police for casual incivilness, we will have the best results.

Pandemoniak
in Speech to the CDC

Comment : I am not there talking for the CCCP but for myself, though Im positive all the CCCP members will agree with me that criminals shouldnt be punished but helped.

	08-08-2002 23:33									#62
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You're too idealistic. Only prevention will not help. There need to be government programs for both prevention and repression.

	08-08-2002 23:40									#63
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M@ni@c, I dont doubt you support Punishment Spheres. It sounds really according to your ideology. But the thing is that I was answering a question from inside the CDC, and directed to the CDC. You, neither the P4, are not members of the CDC coalition. Therefore, I thank you for not rushing again in a CDC congress to interrupt us.

Pandemoniak,
in Free Market : the stairway to atrocities

	08-08-2002 23:45									#64
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a sphere base would be kept size one and all of our air units at least would be supported there (either by clean reactors or massive crawling of minerals) so as not to create pascifist drones in more productive bases.

what i meant about beelining was that if the CDC supported these social engineering choices as P4 does, i'd be willing to research them as quickly as possible. i also think that industrial automation is an important tech to get early for supple crawlers. an early goal for me and i'm sure many others would be centauri ecology, and i agree 100% on secrets of the human brain. of course, i would hold polls to see if anyone has ideas of where we should go instead (perhaps the ACE wants to get synthetic fossil fuels quickly), or maybe others want a more rounded approach.

this all really isn't important to be discussing now though, elections for director positions wont be held until later.

	09-08-2002 00:01									#65
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I am sorry Pandemoniak. I did not know conventions of the Democrats were restricted to certain people.

	09-08-2002 00:10									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak M@ni@c, I dont doubt you support Punishment Spheres.

ONE, punishment sphere, ONE in a size 1 base whose citizen is a specialist to prevent growth. while this is something i dont usually practice, it makes sense.

quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak It sounds really according to your ideology.

what's that supposed to mean?

	09-08-2002 00:14									#67
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Yeah TKG tell them!

	09-08-2002 00:36									#68
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Well, I’ve just returned to be greeted by this good news. And I would like to welcome our new allies the members of the EDP.

Also, here’s the updated version of what positions CDC members are running for.

Commissioner: Darkness' Edge (CD)
Alpha Talent: ---
Directory of Terraforming and Colonization: Pandemoniak (CCCP)
Directory of Science and Technology: Voltaire (LSD)
Directorty of Peacekeeping Operations: ---
Directory of Foreign Affairs: Ade (LSD)
Directory of Energy and Industry: ---
Director of Social Engineering: Kassiopeia (LSD)
Director of Exploration and Intelligence: FlameFlash (EDP)

quote: Personally, I support a more balanced research distribution rather than beelining to social engineering techs. My personal priorities are Explore and Discover techs, as well as getting Secrets of the Human Brain early to speed research However, going by any one plan in tech research tends to marginalize those who disagree with the plan. If I become Science Director, I intend to poll before every tech, to give the minority in the last poll the opportunity to form a majority in the next one. (I'm not implying that you wouldn't poll, only that polling before every tech would tend to make long-term plans problematic.)

AdamTG02, I will give you my assurances that I consider both Discovery and Explore technologies to be of immense importance, more so than even Conquer and Build, I will therefore if elected Director of Science and Technology be most adamant in my push for research in those sectors; but I will try to balance this with what technologies would be most suitable depending on the situation, and I will of course welcome suggestions from anyone on the matter. As for polling before every tech, I agree that it would make long term planning difficult but I would still like to have the opinions of the public at hand before making a decision when possible, though of course the final decision will be made by the Commissioner and I will strive to provide him with as much information as possible in order to make his decision as easy as possible.

And seeing as not all positions have been filled perhaps you would consider running for some other directory which also is of great importance to the EDP agenda, and if I may suggest the position of Director of Energy and Industry as it stands is quite powerful and it would do the Coalition well if we had one of our own in the seat.

quote: On another topic, the P4 has said in the party memberlist thread that they favor a single Punishment Sphere, supporting most of our offensive units at that base. Is there a general CDC consensus against Punishment Spheres?

I don’t believe the issue has been discussed by the CDC or any of its member parties, so perhaps now would be a good time to see where the CDC stands on the issue. The P4 idea to have one base with a Punishment Sphere is interesting, but I don’t believe that it will be a requirement seeing as though the CDC does favour running Free Market for a brief period of time, we wish to avoid the ecological damage as well as the low police rating making it more difficult to have an effective military force. And though I do not share the same humanistic attitudes as Pandemoniak, I vote against Punishment Spheres seeing as I do not believe we will find them necessary.

	09-08-2002 00:44									#69
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quick questions:

1. is CDC extreme left? or just left, centre or right (or extreme right)

2. i know of some of the joined parties there view on atrocities but what about CDC can you tell me of a place where you intire policy is written (or just what you have) or a quick sum up of real game choises not idiolgy?

	09-08-2002 01:03									#70
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword quick questions: 1. is CDC extreme left? or just left, centre or right (or extreme right) 2. i know of some of the joined parties there view on atrocities but what about CDC can you tell me of a place where you intire policy is written (or just what you have) or a quick sum up of real game choises not idiolgy?

The CDC is left on the political spectrum, though not by design, rather the parties that joined all have some left ideology.

The CDCs policies, seeing as it is a coalition, are dictated by the coalition members. Therefore party policies are in part CDC policies, though the CDC also attempts to work out compromises if there are minute differences on which the parties disagree on. But the parties that have joined the CDC all have almost identical SE preferences, and the same goals. We are all in favor of Democracy and Knowledge as ideal SE choices, there are some differences as to weather we should go either Green or Planned as the ideal SE choice, but I believe that all parties are in agreement that we will use all economic models as some point in the game (however brief), such as Planned early on for the industrial bonus as well as the growth bonus as so on.

As for atrocities, since all member parties are opposed to atrocities the CDC policy is the same.

And this would be a good time to get the official standing of all CDC members (seeing as we’ve just recently received a new one) on economic and future SE choices.

	09-08-2002 01:20									#71
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I've submitted my withdrawal from the Director of Science race. I agree with Academician Voltaire's stated policies and he has my support.

Running for Director of Energy and Industry is a possibility, but organizing the EDP is taking enough of my time as it is, and base production is probably the most time-intensive job of any of the ministers.

Once the school year starts, it may be that I'll have more free time than I expect to. If that's the case, and if I feel the post needs an EDP and CDC voice, then I'll consider running for it. As it is, with FlameFlash running for Exploration and Intelligence, Pandemoniak for Terraforming and Colonization, Voltaire for Science and Technology, and Ade for Foreign Affairs, I feel the EDP point of view is adequately represented. And we'll definitely try to make our presence known on base production polls.

Wishing you all the best of luck. (And just because I didn't mention you doesn't mean I don't support you. Those were just the four that came to mind.)

Edited to include EDP's Social Engineering views: The core philosophy of the EDP is our commitment to exploration and scientific advancement. Within that framework, diverse views on social issues can be had. However, I personally support social provisions that foster growth in the early game (Democratic/Planed), and for the mid and late game favor social engineering that allows funds to be efficiently devoted to research (Democratic/Green/Knowledge, and Eudaimonia for growth and econ when we can get that).

Last edited by AdamTG02 on 09-08-2002 at 01:38

	09-08-2002 01:39									#72
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At a total of 10 members, spread across 4 parties, the Chiron Democratic Coalition stands as the strongest political force, followed closely by the Apolytonian Coalition For Expansion (at 6 members) and then by the P4. I feel confidant that we will be able to secure several of the key government positions. Though we mustn’t be too optimistic seeing as the race for Commissioner has been closer than expected, and though our candidate is still in the lead, the opposition is trailing closely behind.

Academician Voltaire;
Excerpt from Semi-Annual Report to the CDC

	09-08-2002 01:58									#73
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Currently the CDC candidate is tied for the position of commissioner with the P4 candidate at 9 votes each. And the Fundamentalist Faction is trailing at 8 votes.

	09-08-2002 02:07									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire At a total of 10 members, spread across 4 parties, the Chiron Democratic Coalition stands as the strongest political force, followed closely by the Apolytonian Coalition For Expansion (at 6 members) and then by the P4. Academician Voltaire; Excerpt from Semi-Annual Report to the CDC

That will be true if the P4 doesnt ally with the CP (Capitalist Pigs)


OFF GAME : I know I sound very offensive when I talk about "pigs", but this is just in game as you probably noticed.

	09-08-2002 02:20									#75
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quote: That will be true if the P4 doesnt ally with the CP

We are already independent and don't plan any alliance or coaltion with the CP nor anyone for the moment.

	09-08-2002 02:23									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I don't remember seeing him nominate himself in the nomination thread....Maybe I should check again. Edit: Checked again. Also, has anyone noticed that CDC also stands for the american "Centers for Disease Control". Could there be a relation?

i mentioned the CDC thing, and i distinctly remember Vlad announcing his candidacy

	09-08-2002 02:26									#77
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Juliennew, are you trying to say that you never had in mind to ally with the CP ? And that you are not close to them ?

	09-08-2002 02:29									#78
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We as P4 decide that allying at this time is not our best option and we will only ally with parties that share our common goal which you can read here

	09-08-2002 02:33									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Juliennew in the P4 thread 07-08-2002 18:34 Yes, the CDC is worrying me since the CCCP joined ... Agreed with TKG, we should ally with the capitalist party. Welcome Archaic !!

	09-08-2002 02:39									#80
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yes but that was yesterday we now have an official response. you got this from our thread where all our discussion are been held. all kind of idea come up then but today there has been decide that we will not yet think of any alliance that will change our policies. if people or parties want to join we are not against that but that will mean that they believe in the policy we have right now. this will not mean a alliance.

	09-08-2002 02:51									#81
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But you're close to them, and I m just telling the CDC that there can be an alliance between you for a specific purpose (ie running for a specific seat, or something). Thus we must not think our coalition has the more members, since you and CP can have an unofficial agreement for a specific question and with same effects that a coalition.

	09-08-2002 02:57									#82
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we have no agreements with the CP either official or unofficial.

Pande-please don't go nuts over my new avatar...

	09-08-2002 02:58									#83
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I have heard some rumors that some parties are already giving eachother diretories in exchange for votes....i do not yet know if this rumors are right and if P4 will particapate in this wave of changing loyalties....so that why I have to say no comment (and I really do not no not the entire party is online so i do not know)

but can you please tell me why the CCCP joined the CDC there 'pigs' in there ranks too (i believe) and I taught that the CCCP believed in a one-party system without help of others ( )

	09-08-2002 03:04									#84
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword I have heard some rumors that some parties are already giving eachother diretories in exchange for votes....i do not yet know if this rumors are right and if P4 will particapate in this wave of changing loyalties....so that why I have to say no comment (and I really do not no not the entire party is online so i do not know) but can you please tell me why the CCCP joined the CDC there 'pigs' in there ranks too (i believe) and I taught that the CCCP believed in a one-party system without help of others ( )

“An enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

Hell, I’ve seen stranger coalitions than between Communists and Greens in real life. It all comes down to necessity, to get seats you are forced to ally yourself with someone who you many not want to. And likewise to prevent those who you do not want to see in power, concessions have to be made for the lesser of two evils.

	09-08-2002 03:07									#85
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yes and the saying goes: that you have to keep your friend close but your enemies even closer. but remember when he is at an armlength away we will stab you (and not always in the back )

	09-08-2002 03:08									#86
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword But can you please tell me why the CCCP joined the CDC there 'pigs' in there ranks too (i believe) and

I havent seen any pigs in any CDC congress, except for that time someone rushed in and interrupted the congress to say his word.

quote: I tought that the CCCP believed in a one-party system without help of others ( )

I dont know where you got that, there's no reference to a unique party in the CCCP line. If you are referring to Marxism, you'd better know that Marx never supported a one party system. Actually, his main politic theory, what is mostly know under the name of communism, has the goal to suppress the notion of state itself. Since social classes struggles is the engine of history, you can then abolish social classes, stop history, and therefore abolish state itself.
But if there's no state, there's no party at all, just citizens.

Moreover, the CCCP is more attached to Marx's economical theories than to his political theories.

Read "Le Capital".

Note that this discussion shouldnt occur in the CDC congress, though. So if you want to discuss that with me, please meet me at the CCCP headquarters.

	09-08-2002 03:09									#87
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so, what you're saying is, you dont want P4 in power

	09-08-2002 03:15									#88
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I am just saying I will do everything needed to assure the wellbeing and happiness of all citizens. Free Market makes one people happy for a hundred people starving.

	09-08-2002 03:17									#89
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oh, im sorry. i was referring to voltaire's post. you see, yours and DBTS's posts didn't come up until after i posted that.

	09-08-2002 03:21									#90
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quote: Originally posted by TKG oh, im sorry. i was referring to voltaire's post. you see, yours and DBTS's posts didn't come up until after i posted that.

Not at all, it’s just that to ensure ones own side gets into power you have to prevent others from doing so. As a matter of fact the differences between the P4 and the CDC pail in comparison to those between the CDC and the ACE; if CDC members cannot take a certain position in government I would much rather see the P4 take it over the ACE (well at least over the Hawk party anyway).