22-08-2002 20:23									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Talar If I may interrupt the debate with a question: I have never played PBEM. How do you know what happened during the other players turns if they for example moved troops through your territory but ended their moves outside the area you can see?

You can not. PBEM is not a native game play option in Civ 2. If it was, you would be able to "review turn" like in some other games I've played. But hopefully Civ 3 will have more native game play options....like the ability for many people to be on a team and watch/play the game together. Now that is Democracy. But I'm only hoping.

quote: On second hand though maybe you can get me into an agreement to real-time if you would structurize it in 3 meeting's of presidential where they play about 10 turn's every 2 day's opposite to system of playing 30 turn's in a week.That would get my into a consencus since my primary fear is how negative this 30 turn's in one week system can be for the forum attendance and playerbase.A PBem system is the counter of that ,so the consencus is around 10 turn's every 2 day's ,with a construction in place to ensure that 1 man from every team is present with the proper athority to act as the player for that team in the game.

I would go for that because it still has real time aspects in the game. Organization would be tough though...and would probably end up being every 3-4 days. We intended to play twice a week when we started at GC aswell.... But as you know...that didn't pan out either.

	22-08-2002 22:15									#32
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: You can not. PBEM is not a native game play option in Civ 2. If it was, you would be able to "review turn" like in some other games I've played. But hopefully Civ 3 will have more native game play options....like the ability for many people to be on a team and watch/play the game together. Now that is Democracy. But I'm only hoping.

I was with the idea once ,when i was pres of the old civII demo game to point my webcam on my screen and to display that for other user's with netmeeting ,i never tested it though ,i guess one would need a pretty good resolution and bandwith.

quote: I would go for that because it still has real time aspects in the game. Organization would be tough though...and would probably end up being every 3-4 days. We intended to play twice a week when we started at GC aswell.... But as you know...that didn't pan out either.

Maybe a certain rule that provide's other people with the power to play the actual turn's to could ensure that always someone will be present to play those nuber of turn's at that moment.Maybe a construction of president and 2 or 3 vice's ,or just something else ,like president not even playing game but some sort of officials.

	23-08-2002 02:08									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah....you would need monster bandwidth..and so would your watchers. But a nice idea. Might try that some day....when I get my webcam installed.

quote: Originally posted by DuckOfFlanders Maybe a certain rule that provide's other people with the power to play the actual turn's to could ensure that always someone will be present to play those nuber of turn's at that moment.Maybe a construction of president and 2 or 3 vice's ,or just something else ,like president not even playing game but some sort of officials.

That would be ideal.

However the current/probably poly president doesn't like that idea.

GC is ruled via triumvrate. And more than likely....one of us can make every session.

Maybe other empires should consider ruling by commitee instead of singular rule. That might aliviate problems too.

	23-08-2002 02:38									#34
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Mister administrator i have made an error!!!!!!

I clicked to send my vote and rather than doing that checked the real-time vote. So right now i see 6-7 for real time and it should be 7-6 PBEM.

Sorry fr the mix up. And I vote PBEM becouse i am not on at regular hours, the time i have available to visit websites is few and far between so I feel that i would have no vote in the DEMOCRACY game, much less be able to keep up with what is happening. So if real time is selected then i will have to defect to th barbarians

	23-08-2002 05:57									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Zedd Sorry fr the mix up. And I vote PBEM becouse i am not on at regular hours, the time i have available to visit websites is few and far between so I feel that i would have no vote in the DEMOCRACY game, much less be able to keep up with what is happening. So if real time is selected then i will have to defect to th barbarians

That is a misconception.

Real Time games are only played at real time to limit cheating.

The decissions are made on the forum...so even if you are there on odd ball hours....the game will only be played at certian times. PBEM games are played at different times.....so it's possible for you to visit the forum one Monday at 3 AM and vote before the game...but the next time you visit you might just miss the game...and have no say.

That's why I prefer Real Time. There are sessions so you always know when the game is played.

	23-08-2002 14:25									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If it doesn't work out with the system that we end up choosing then we can always choose the other system. I doubt the CFC team would have problems with having two people playing the game at different times during the week if it was needed.

Last edited by Dell19 on 23-08-2002 at 14:41

	24-08-2002 01:26									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by CornMaster That is a misconception. Real Time games are only played at real time to limit cheating. The decissions are made on the forum...so even if you are there on odd ball hours....the game will only be played at certian times. PBEM games are played at different times.....so it's possible for you to visit the forum one Monday at 3 AM and vote before the game...but the next time you visit you might just miss the game...and have no say. That's why I prefer Real Time. There are sessions so you always know when the game is played.

So basicly the voteing, polling and discussion would take place like normal and only game play would be real time? how does that stop some one from voteing on a poll in two forums, or from say suggesting to build one wonder in a forum and voteing that down in another forum. That is what i thought the real time deal was for is the acctual citizen participation in the game thereby lowering the CITIZENS chances for cheating. I would Agree that the officials need to play at the same time becouse its a MPG game.

	24-08-2002 04:07									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Zedd So basicly the voteing, polling and discussion would take place like normal and only game play would be real time?

Yes

quote: how does that stop some one from voteing on a poll in two forums, or from say suggesting to build one wonder in a forum and voteing that down in another forum.

Because each team can only see one special forum. If you go to GC you will see the Multisite game forum. That is just like this forum. It's for general discussions.

At GC you CAN NOT see the GC Team forum. Because it's hidden for GC members only. And the CFC forum on GC is only for CFC players. So voting only takes place in the private forum. Where the game is played now. This voting is only preliminary in establishing game rules.

quote: I would Agree that the officials need to play at the same time becouse its a MPG game.

Excatly.

	24-08-2002 14:33									#39
	Hmm Increase the size of your Attachments

I can see the merits of both systems, but playing in a few Real Time Sessions a week seems the best course; IF we can get an agreeable time, and IF people can make that time. I don't think it would be a problem for me to play ATM, as I'm still on summer holiday, but my 56k Modem may disagree. Also after the holiday, I can't really help out, and I think it's the same with a lot of people. Seeing the vote going for Real Time, I think it's only fair we try it first (unless that misvote hasn't been corrected...) But we need reliable players to play the turns, and that person would need to be voted in by the players; thus making him the President (or Prime Minister as we all know he should be called ) So all it requires is some active players posting opinions and a reliable trustworthy President and Vices, who can play at the alloted time. Of course Vices would have to be Ministers becuase we don't have enough players.

:0

	24-08-2002 17:37									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm getting bored with this mumo-jumo, lets just get on with the game.

	24-08-2002 17:40									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

uh oh...with zedd's vote changed to PBEM, it's tied and closed...

	24-08-2002 21:28									#42
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The vote at GC is 9-2 for Real Time.

Anyway...I agree we should start. That way we can hammer down all the rules, and get some playing times layed out.

	25-08-2002 01:44									#43
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by 123john321 I'm getting bored with this mumo-jumo, lets just get on with the game.

Well said I could play either way, lets just get this started.

	26-08-2002 23:40									#44
	Tired of ads?

quote: Because each team can only see one special forum. If you go to GC you will see the Multisite game forum. That is just like this forum. It's for general discussions. At GC you CAN NOT see the GC Team forum. Because it's hidden for GC members only. And the CFC forum on GC is only for CFC players. So voting only takes place in the private forum. Where the game is played now. This voting is only preliminary in establishing game rules.

In my case I am a "legal" member of both Apolyton and CFC so I would be able to view both forums then right? I really am not makeing it a big deal, i don't think that cheating is as big an issue as some think. Maybe i'm trusting but nearly everyone who sighned up has been concerned with preventing cheeting and i don't see them starting to cheat now. For the most part It just for fun and the people playing this game will likely be too interested in makeing the game challengeing and fun. Besides i feel for anyone who does cheat becouse they will be exiled by both teams

As for the Realtime vs PBM vote I agree with cornmasters ideas for a reltime game play situation. The only ones who have to be present at that are the presidents and some cabinet members, not too hard to organize 6-7 people. as long as the people are aware of the game times and able to participate then..................Let there be real time play

	27-08-2002 00:41									#45
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Zedd In my case I am a "legal" member of both Apolyton and CFC so I would be able to view both forums then right?

Nonono....I'm a member of all three sites.

BUT I'm on the GC team. So I've been given special permission to see the GameCatcher Alliance forum at GameCatcher.

The CFC team has also been given a special forum at GameCatcher where they....and only they can talk about the game.

Apolyton forums has a special forum for the Apolyton team. (Which I believe you are a member of) You can ONLY be a member of one team. And can't switch during the game.

	01-09-2002 09:54									#46
	Support Apolyton

so the vote's tied here...

Reading back through some of the arguments, I'm happy to play it out in real-time, and I can see the advantages there.

But, unless we find a challenger for the Apolyton presidency, you'll have to find a time that I can make it at.