30-08-2002 23:19									#31
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You quote my plan then ask what it is?

We must offer these foreign nationals an opportunity to serve as our equals. To shed off their own nationality and become workers or settlers (I REALLY think the citizens chosen when building these goes from right to left, oldest first...but could be wrong). Once they have proven their loyalty there, they can be assimilated back into any city of their choice, AS APOLYTONIANS, not as foreign nationals.

This is an opportunity. If we decide not to procede with this course and instead choose to kill off our own potential power, we will be condemning ourselves. We must make every opportunity to use what resources are available to us. And our diverse citizenry is such a resource, when properly tapped.

Why do we conquer? To bring order to this place. To show our greatness. To claim Victory. (described in last post) Not to destroy all other peoples, enslave masses, or slaughter children. What kind of future is that for our own children?

'If you accord with virtue you become one with it.
If you accord with loss you become one with it.'
- Lao Tzu



Spiffor,

Timeline and I spoke to great lengths on that subject. It goes nowhere. Though I welcome conversation with the DIA always, sometimes that is best done in private...

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 30-08-2002 at 23:53

	30-08-2002 23:50									#32
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Just because we gave them the metric system and the Added Value Tax, they think we are different : dont correct them. (in How to deal with non-french human beings handbook, Vol I, Title I, Chapter 1)

Oh, we really embraced the metric system. Don't hold your breathe waiting for anyone to thank you for that.

Our lack of support for the metric system is part of our secret global domination conspiracy.....

	31-08-2002 02:11									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor As a DIA member, I must strongly oppose this new incarnation of murderous and genocidial ideology, which plagues even the greatest representatives of our esteemed rival party . Killing these French and Americans is utterly stupid ! If they die, who will work in the fields near Del Monte and Gaia ? Who will furnish us our dyes and our wines ? Who will make money for the greatness of our empire ? We must assimilate these people overtime, rather than killing them. They are good as long as they're still alive and working hard for the sake of our purse !

I second this.

	31-08-2002 03:12									#34
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I'm (as a private citizen, totally not related to the Foreign Ministry's official position -- which I don't know) in total agreement with Unortho and Shiber, in everything except the "As a DIA member" part .

Genocide's not cool. Even in videogames. And even in a purely roleplaying sense, it's bad economic policy -- we need all the population we can get, not to be killing off what's been given to us.

-- adaMada

	31-08-2002 03:28									#35
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We should respect our minorities!

While an element of role play is welcome, in my view you go too far with this Duddha. There are really bad connotations to this idea. I refer you back to some discussions we had early on (before the Game started) about ethics which, while it was probably erring too much the other way, did raise some interesting points.

"Foreign" -origin Apolytonians will either (1) assimilate to our glorious culture (2) revert to their original allegiance (if theirs is strong & ours is weak), and/or (3) continue to exist as a minority within ours, which our government should take account of. That is the nature (I might even say essence) of both Democracy and this game. We should respect otherness - they have become Apolytonians in the same way as there are Turkish Germans and African Americans.

OT: As a Scot, whose nation owes its survival arguably as much or maybe more to its strong culture as to its military prowess, I can see where Firaxis were coming from with this idea.

Sorry for this rant, it just makes me uncomfortable as an "overt" political stance, even within this game. And by the way I live in England now, so maybe I over identify with those "foreigners" in our C3DG nation, sorry again.

	31-08-2002 04:24									#36
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We have all seen a lot of crap in these forums, but this "ARE" organization is in really bad taste. There are too many REAL groups like this and considering the truly international make-up of these forums, I say again this is in really bad taste. How well do any of us really know each other? How do any of us actually KNOW that the group is not an offspring from some deep rooted racial issue?

We want everybody regardles of nationality, race, creed sexual orientation, etc... to be COMFORTABLE here.

This group flies in the face of that.

I am all for ethnocentric (differs from bigotry), megalomaniacal, genocidal, warmonging role playing. I just do not want to be a part of anything that sounds degrading.

Elitist ethnic politics wind up attracting haters. Some will be playing and others will be serious. Who can really tell the difference? If you think that you can, just say so, I will post my latest picture from my latest shoot.

Well thats all I really had to say, lets not get caught up in negative rhetoric and give the wrong impression.

Mss

	31-08-2002 04:47									#37
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. . . and I would never play as the Scots 'cos they were useless at conquering the world (the English had to show us where to go).

	31-08-2002 04:49									#38
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noo!
we must save the beautiful french people, more notably their women!
i cant stand for this!

	31-08-2002 05:10									#39
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*ManicStarSeed, Proserpine: I think you underestimate what good and health can actually come from this kind of role-playing. This is not a popular topic in RL and many may not know how ugly a history it was (is?).*

Duddha, you ARE a fool. Do you think that non-original peoples are not among you right NOW? Even as we speak, refugees from other nations are serving loyal roles in the building of our glorious Apolytonia. If you turn the knife against all foreigners you turn it against your fellow citizen, your fellow minister. You turn it against your brother.
I fled the decadence and wretchedness of an immoral American nation. I turned to the great Banana and found peace and salvation. Yet now I find that the ugly barbarism of my past has followed me and placed it's bile into your mouth! Del Monte is my home. My former American friends and family are citizens of Apolytonia, and we will fight to defend the ways of the Banana and champion it's glory.
It is a mistake to call for the execution of all foreign nationals. You will only breed dissent and mistrust. You have grown paranoid from this war with the hated frogs. The French obviously are an inferior and untrustworthy species, but it is a mistake to call this the standard of all other foriegners. Help us to convert my barbaric brothers. We need to build our holy temples in the farthest reachest of our territory, and build great and marvelous wonders to demonstrate that ours is the most dominate and rightous of cultures.

	31-08-2002 05:35									#40
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quote: Originally posted by caesarqbear *ManicStarSeed, Proserpine: I think you underestimate what good and health can actually come from this kind of role-playing. This is not a popular topic in RL and many may not know how ugly a history it was (is?).

True, I see your point and I welcome it

I never estimated anything,
I just want to keep the uglys of RL out....

Thanks for the additional perspective..

Mss

	31-08-2002 06:56									#41
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Yes, foreigners have weakened our nation somewhat, but that is the price we pay for conquest. However, purging our nation of them will just weaken it even more as the foreigners have integrated strongly into our society.

	31-08-2002 07:04									#42
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quote: Duddha, you ARE a fool. Do you think that non-original peoples are not among you right NOW? Even as we speak, refugees from other nations are serving loyal roles in the building of our glorious Apolytonia. If you turn the knife against all foreigners you turn it against your fellow citizen, your fellow minister. You turn it against your brother. I fled the decadence and wretchedness of an immoral American nation.

Mama, we got wann of em foreigners! Get em!

	31-08-2002 07:06									#43
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quote: Yes, foreigners have weakened our nation somewhat, but that is the price we pay for conquest. However, purging our nation of them will just weaken it even more as the foreigners have integrated strongly into our society.

You contradict yourself. You know which half is right, join the dark side.

	31-08-2002 07:08									#44
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quote: I am all for ethnocentric (differs from bigotry), megalomaniacal, genocidal, warmonging role playing. I just do not want to be a part of anything that sounds degrading.

I hope you don't think the little people in the game have feelings.

	31-08-2002 07:12									#45
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quote: "Foreign" -origin Apolytonians will either (1) assimilate to our glorious culture (2) revert to their original allegiance (if theirs is strong & ours is weak), and/or (3) continue to exist as a minority within ours, which our government should take account of. That is the nature (I might even say essence) of both Democracy and this game. We should respect otherness

I have explained earlier in this thread why foreigners weaken the strong lineage of our nation. Besides referring to utopain dreams of "diversity" explain how foreigners make us stronger. We must crush this "otherness" before it destroys us.

	31-08-2002 07:14									#46
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What make you think that the don't have feelings?

	31-08-2002 07:17									#47
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caesarqbear has demonstrated that the problem of foreigners has gotten out of hand. Something must be done.

	31-08-2002 07:22									#48
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx OOO, party war. OK, I just can't stay out of things. That is why I am not PRESIDENT.

OK, I just must be President. This is why I am not a member of any PARTY (beyond my beloved 3A2C3, that is).



The President's policy at this time is not to have a policy as yet.

	31-08-2002 07:27									#49
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Statistically speaking, something should be done to ameliorate this situation.

But from a more personal opinion, I would chose to drown these foreigners in our culture rather than in a lake.

But do beware of the fact that they will be more restless than the average Apolytonian.

Oh, and I feel the need now to stress at every opportunity the importance of 1) keeping Germany's unheard of expansion in check and
2) immediately expanding onto Uber Isle.

the statistics, trust me, support both of these facts.

	31-08-2002 07:41									#50
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racial elitists suck. especially when they're french.

	31-08-2002 07:45									#51
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Can we export Dudda?

	31-08-2002 07:50									#52
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada I'm (as a private citizen, totally not related to the Foreign Ministry's official position -- which I don't know) in total agreement with Unortho and Shiber, in everything except the "As a DIA member" part . Genocide's not cool. Even in videogames. And even in a purely roleplaying sense, it's bad economic policy -- we need all the population we can get, not to be killing off what's been given to us. -- adaMada

Now your just insulting me? (j/k)

For the record, I am one of the blodthirsty brain dead warmonger Hawk members.

	31-08-2002 07:54									#53
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as long as we put all of our newly acquired citizens through reneducation (not a typo), everything will be swell.

	31-08-2002 08:11									#54
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Now your just insulting me? (j/k) For the record, I am one of the blodthirsty brain dead warmonger Hawk members.

Oops .

I was actually refering to Shiber for that part, but I did think you were an independent... (Before someone assumes I've got an affiliation for either side, I'm independent, and having funn ...)

Well, for a bloodthirsty brain dead warmonger Hawk member, you're remarkably docile .

-- adaMada

	31-08-2002 08:17									#55
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Well, for a bloodthirsty brain dead warmonger Hawk member, you're remarkably docile . -- adaMada

Maybe compared to Uber...

I just like to stay in the background. You get more done that way. Besides, what is there to go around getting upset at? The DIA held offices for most of he firs two terms...terms filled with all the warfare any warmonger cold want.

Or are you saying I am docile for not wanting to KILL these people? I suggest you read my stance on 'victory' again if that is the case.

	31-08-2002 08:25									#56
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Maybe compared to Uber... I just like to stay in the background. You get more done that way. Besides, what is there to go around getting upset at? The DIA held offices for most of he firs two terms...terms filled with all the warfare any warmonger cold want. Or are you saying I am docile for not wanting to KILL these people? I suggest you read my stance on 'victory' again if that is the case.

yup, hidden agendas
the DIA are very warlike, and the Hawks are caring and nuturing and such.

	31-08-2002 11:16									#57
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Well, through all of this interesting discussion, mostly directed at me, I think some novel ideas have come out.

First, while most Apolytonians do not hate members of foreign inferior nations "most" do accept that this portion of the population may become somewhat difficult at some time, ex. civil disorder.

Second, most Apolytonians do not favor xenocide at this time. We'll see what people think after generations of baby eating foreigners. I believe time is with me on this one.*hits head* What am I thinking.

Third, Unortho has proposed a middle ground temperary solution to the problem of the foreign blooded population, forced assimulation. I think we should all agree to take this path as it does not carry moral objections and diminishes the foreign population. Unorthodox has created our future orthodox for dealing with foreign conquered cities.

The thread is still open for discussions as this issue will not disappear in the near future.

Last edited by Duddha on 31-08-2002 at 11:33

	31-08-2002 11:39									#58
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Dudda, you obviously take no scientific approach to the understanding of the racial species of Abananaba, thus proving our urgent need to increase our technological and education spending...
It is obvious that a racial strata can be interpolated solely through the primordial homeland juxtaposition to harsh and inclement geographical conditions. Soft and overly nurturing situations give breed to minds and spirits of lethargy and ineptitude. Thus the worthless French and substandard Persians demonstrate only the most primitive forms of cognitive ability and ingenuity. Whereas, a challenging environment develops a race with a formidable constitution. This is why the greatness of Apolytonian is possible, yet not secured, and why England will inevitably win any war with the Persians. It is plain geographical ignorance to assume that we are the one true race. As is Abananaba diverse, so are the many nations that populate it. My American ancestors possessed great ability, but squandered it through infighting and bloodthirsty attitudes. I count myself among the fortunate who have escaped into enlightment from that dire regime. I provide living proof for the cause to seek a properly controlled racial diversity. Proof that we beneift from the betterment of our backwards but benevolent brothers.

	06-09-2002 05:39									#59
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ceaserarqbear, your approach in explaining racial superoirity among the people of Abananaba is interesting, but radically wrong. We all know science is inheritely evil and the work of demons. As wise scholars of these advance times we can agree that the truths of superiority lie in theology. The great banana gave our people a higher level of divinity than others and blessed our land with the plentiful banana plant. We were made in a closer image of the one true God. This would explain the American's ability to assimilate into our culture. By their own luck they were given access to the divine banana plant.

I have annouced my candidacy for City Planner. If you support me I promise to wipe our land clean of the inferior peoples that infest our cities. Don't let a foreigner eat your BABY!

Last edited by Duddha on 06-09-2002 at 08:37

	09-09-2002 03:11									#60
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quote: *The alarming influx of foreign blood in the past two centuries has lost momentum, much to the relief of the A.R.E. There are 42,000 people of American descent in the land, or 4.1% of the total population. This is from 20,000 in Gaia and 22,000 in Delmonte. That number has fallen from the previous 44,000 and 6.9% of national population. There are 80,000 people of French decent, a growth of 48.1%, although the have become more of a minority, down to 7.9% of the total population. This is a combined foreign population of 11.0%, down from 15.4%. Actual numbers of foreigners are up 14.3% (Far below the national growth of 60.2%!).

A promising new development.