17-09-2002 05:20									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by baturkey Don't wory about losing the SP race early on. Why build projects when you can seize them?

There are a lot of reasons, the first being that you get their benefit immediately. Add to that the chance that they might be built so far away that it will take decades to get there, that they might be destroyed when you take the base or when an AI player takes the base, and that by building them you are denying them to the AI. I'd much rather have the AI cranking out units than building toward an SP. If they crank out units their minerals diminish to zero pretty quickly and they are stuck with laser infantry etc. If they work toward an SP they may finish it, finish another SP, build infrastructure if someone beat them to the SP, or crank out a bunch of more modern weapons quickly, all of which are worse than them building crappy units and reducing their mineral count to near zero.

	17-09-2002 05:39									#32
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quote: Originally posted by CEO Aaron My situation becomes even worse if I'm stuck on a small island, which seems to happen to me more often than not. Its all very well to say 'rush to Industrial Automation', but sometimes I really just can't. And when I can't, I invariably get fried.

You are right, small island starts are tough but not impossible. If I see I am on a small island(say big enough for only 3 to 6 bases, then I adjust a bit.

I might try to squeeze an extra base or two in.

I will definitely go to FM asap, to get as many energy and research as possible.

I will go to 30/10/60 SE and stay their longer, so as to maximize research.

And I will branch to mobility and flex, with Flex and plan networks my two primary tech goals(after centari ecology of course), and shift IA to second. That way I can get foil probes out there to steal techs and explore, and transports to take more CPs to neighbouring islands(or hopefully continents).

Don't forget, the game engine tries to balance starting positions. It is likely that no one inhabits the bigger islands. If you get there first, your liability will quickly turn into an asset(as in Oktoberfist III).

bc

	17-09-2002 16:30									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

On a small island, you might go for a serious attempt to grab the Weather Paradigm.

How can you speed a Project, before you can attain IndAuto?

You should consider producing other units with the purpose of disbanding them into the Project base, even if you'll only get half their mineral values.

If you have PlanetEcon, you can use infantry probes for the purpose, as you won't have to pay any support.
If the travel distances are not big, you could even simply go with scout patrols. You'll have to disband them into the Project as you produce them, because you can't allow their support lower your productivity.
But the best wold be to continue producing former, even in excess. your productivity will slow down, but in the meanwhile they'll do some terraforming, before you have enough to disband them in the Project.
Let's say your project base produces 5 minerals (we're talking of small island, few bases and resources, and the very early game: Ecology and WP in this case are an immediate goal).
You'd need 40 turns for the WP (36 with Planned).
Each formers will take two rows to produce, and will yield 1 when disbanded in the project.
If you have 4 other bases, each producing formers at 4 minerals per turn, you can have 8 formers in a dozen of turns, and eventually 12 former in 20 turns (this is all very generic, just to get an idea of how this technique works; also, you would speed your produciton by rushing the formers last minerals with the few money you'd be collecting).
From when you have Centauri Ecology (and 5 size-2 bases), you can get the WP in 20 turns or less.

Why this effort?
Because if land scarcity is your problem, this way you can develop HongKong style, expanding your territory with extensive landfills!
Raising up terrain near bases is cheap (4ec per tile distance from a base), and with the WP 4 formers will raise land in just 2 turns.
Let's say that you've produced a dozen formers only to disband them in the project, you'd have renounced to 3 Nodes, or to 6 RecCommons. But you'd have benefited in exchange of ~100 terraformer turns, on average, in the meanwhile. And this way the WP allows you to perform advanced terraforming much earlier than when you can get EcoEng, and EnvEcon which is the prereq for raising land.

A different approach:
b_c suggested to build transports and Colony Pods to colonize nearby islands.
This is correct, but depending on the actual geography, you should not forget that you have the option to also build seabases. Maybe a ring around your island, exploiting sea resources too far from shore, could be a way to go.
Consider that even if sea colonists are more expensive, a seabase comes with a free pressure dome, which would be retained should you eventually later bring it on land by landrising.
I'm not a fan of seabases, but you should keep in mind that you have several options.

	17-09-2002 18:20									#34
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quote: Originally posted by MariOne Why this effort? Because if land scarcity is your problem, this way you can develop HongKong style, expanding your territory with extensive landfills! Raising up terrain near bases is cheap (4ec per tile distance from a base), and with the WP 4 formers will raise land in just 2 turns.

That's Populous! Thanks! *keeps her fingers crossed for a small island starting position*

	17-09-2002 20:01									#35
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well

I always play on transcend and have won with each and every faction. I did the alien "call the fleet" victory just to earn the right to see that movie. In my last 20 SP games or so, I lost once. I was playing Miriam with double-blind research and got stuck on an island and met NOBODY for over 100 years and got rolled. Doc flex NEVER came up and I made the huge error of not getting the WP

But even that position was winnable. I replayed it from year one and sacrificed almost my entire armed forces to get the WP-- and this led to land bridges and someone to attack .. .

I have come to the conclusion that every start position is winnable (against the AI) and every faction can be won.

	18-09-2002 15:19									#36
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Started a game with lots of water, hoping to get the small island start.

Deidre is on it, bleh.

I think I'll save this game for when I'm ready for interesting challenges.

	18-09-2002 16:22									#37
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Kll her
If I find I'm on a smallish continent with another faction early on, I'll squish them. If you can produce scout patrols fast enough and in large enough numbers before your opponent prototypes Synthmetal, they're toast!

	18-09-2002 18:10									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

But, but, but....She's bigger than me! She's got mindworms!

OK, I'll quit whining and give that a try when I get home.

	18-09-2002 19:51									#39
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Oh yeah. If Dee has mindworms it's kinda a bit of a problem...
Try luring them out of the base or something. Stay well away from fungus And always remember...
The AI is inferior. Try using some weird tactic or something. Chances are it'll be too dumb to recognise what you're trying. Like the time Zak went around completely ignoring the stack of four Scout Patrols I'd built up outside his one and only base...idiot

Seriously, factions are generally easier to crush in the early game. I've got rid of both Lal and Cha Dawn inside the first 20 years of a game.

	18-09-2002 23:45									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just two quick questions:
When I'm too close to an AI and somehow manage to get a few units into his neighbourhood, I'll attack. I refuse all treaties, so I usually get an enforced "informal truce" or "truce". When I attack, I nevertheless lose reputation. It won't go up during the game. So two questions:
- How to get to war without penalty?
- Is there a mechanism to improve reputation or does it stay (or fall) all the game?

	19-09-2002 00:10									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

AFAIK, reputation cannot ever be improved. (kind of like real life.)

Only way to get to war without reputation hit is to have the AI declare...provoke them by demanding withdrawal, by probe actions or by refusal to speak to them when they call on the comm.

Generally, I don't worry about reputation in SP. They're all going to be at V with me sooner or later anyhow.

	19-09-2002 11:15									#42
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[QUOTE]They're all going to be at V with me sooner or later anyhow. [QUOTE]
But I prefer them to go S after some time, where I think R helps .
Reputation can be improved in RL. Once a mass murderer, now a general. (OK, generals have not a particularly high reputation in my eyes.)

	20-09-2002 01:35									#43
	Tired of ads?

I think the AI on my game has gone slightly mad , i've completed transcendance quite easily a few times as Hive, and i basically dont bother with crawlers (though i do overkill with formers early on due to high support)
So recently i got bored and decided to have a quick few hour game on talent and was surprised to see that after 100 years the AI had managed to keep up with me on tech level ! Still even in this talent game i got sick of the AI trying to extort me when my military outnumbered its by about 10:1 and wiped out 6 factions in 5 turns
ive just started playing MP games since ive never really had a fight late on the game, hopefully will learn more about the game and surviving will be a bonus