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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:22
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Here's something I wrote in a recent post about Falun Gong (aka FalunDafa)...
From what I've seen, most of the protrayals of FG in the US press characterize it as nothing more than a form of tai-qi-like exercises. There are few references to the more bizarre teachings of Li Hongzhi, the cult's messianic leader. For your benefit, here's a few interesting nuggets translated from various speeches, publications, and tapes of Li Hongzhi.
Aliens are controlling mankind through computers, making them slaves to machines
Why have aliens invented such a scientific thing for people? Because it belongs to their planet, and they want to bring it to our world to finally mankind. As they discovered, the human body is so perfect that they want to use it to replace people. People would in turn become the slaves of computers and machines, and finally replaced by aliens. How do computers develop so rapidly? Why does the human brain become so active? because human minds are controlled by aliens, who have assigned a number to every person who is able to run a computer. I have deleted the numbers for my followers so that they would not be disturbed when using computers.
Taking medicines merely presses back karma and finally destroys you
Diseases do not arise from this space. Taking medicines can kill the surface virus, and it really works. But the power achieved by practicing Falun Gong can automatically eliminate viruses and karma. When medicines kill the surface virus, other viruses and karma in other spaces know it and do not come to you, so you feel better. But I assure you, they are still there. Human beings accumulate karma from beginning to end. When a person accumulates too much karma his illness will be incurable and he will be thoroughly destroyed when he dies.
When you reach a very high level after spiritual cultivation, you may gain compound eyes like those of flies
..Beyond the worldly spiritual cultivation, compound eyes appear. That is to say, a big eye appears on the upper half of the face, with countless small eyes in it. Practitioners at master level may have many eyes, filling the whole of their faces. All these eyes may see anything they want to see through this big eye. One glance may see thorough all levels. Modern zoologists and entomologists have studied flies. Their eyes are very large, and through a microscope one can see that they contain many small eyes. This phenomenon is called a called a compound eye. Only when a person reaches a very high level can he attain compound eyes.
Modern science is wrong
Modern science has actually developed on a basis which is wrong, and which has incorrect understandings of the universe, mankind and life. Therefore, the practitioners of Falun Gong do not accept modern science at all, and regard it as erroneous.
The Nanjing Massacre and Hitler's killing were caused by changes of astronomical phenomena
I defeated the "snake spirit"
Mankind had been completely destroyed 81 times
The Earth has exploded many times
Falun Dafa is a magnificent palace, while Christianity is just a small and simple room
I will stage a marvelous spectacle by bringing all my disciples to fly into the sky
Science has led to the moral degradation of human society
Demons will take the lives of those who betray "Falun Dafa"
Sorry, I gotta go now, expecting guests ...
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Jaakko
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in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:22
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quote:
Originally posted by mindseye
Aliens are controlling mankind through computers, making them slaves to machines
Why have aliens invented such a scientific thing for people? Because it belongs to their planet, and they want to bring it to our world to finally mankind. As they discovered, the human body is so perfect that they want to use it to replace people. People would in turn become the slaves of computers and machines, and finally replaced by aliens. How do computers develop so rapidly? Why does the human brain become so active? because human minds are controlled by aliens, who have assigned a number to every person who is able to run a computer. I have deleted the numbers for my followers so that they would not be disturbed when using computers.
...
When you reach a very high level after spiritual cultivation, you may gain compound eyes like those of flies
..Beyond the worldly spiritual cultivation, compound eyes appear. That is to say, a big eye appears on the upper half of the face, with countless small eyes in it. Practitioners at master level may have many eyes, filling the whole of their faces. All these eyes may see anything they want to see through this big eye. One glance may see thorough all levels. Modern zoologists and entomologists have studied flies. Their eyes are very large, and through a microscope one can see that they contain many small eyes. This phenomenon is called a called a compound eye. Only when a person reaches a very high level can he attain compound eyes.
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AHHHHH, run for the hills, it's Shan, the foul Insects from ****gai!!
If you don't do what they say they'll torment you with sights from their blasphemous rites to the Supreme God Azatoth. No please don't hurtmeilldowhatyousaynopleasenopleaseno
Edit: That's S H A G G A I. Isn't this level of censorship a little excessive?
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Vesayen
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"Lack of freedom of religion is as well [/q] Huh? China has Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Moslems, and Christians!"
There are no Jews in China, at least in any significant number lol, if there were over 1,000 in china's population of over a billion, I would be amazed.
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:22
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quote:
What exactly are they suffering from? |
I'd say they are suffering from Communism. A monolithic, single-party form of gov't is destined to have major problems. The Party's Number One priority, like any human institution, is survival. Survival of the Party, that is. The welfare of the country is also high on the list, but it is subservient to Party survival. From this single fact stems most of China's worst problems today, which would include:
* lack of accountability - the people have no tools to get rid of leaders who make bad decisions
* dreadful legal system - most judges are simply Party hacks, only a minority even have college educations. The situation is improving, but the courts are still all too often a tool of the influential or wealthy.
* corruption - China's millennia-old problem is made worse by a single-party system. From top to bottom, China's entire political system is plagued by corruption. Judges and officials can be easily bought off. Political leaders' cronies and offspring (known as "princelings") are favored with lucrative gov't contracts and posts. Greedy officials vacuuming up unemployed worker's pensions is an ugly example.
* political oppression - UR's uncle's party is news to me, anyone who publicly talks about starting a rival political party usually finds himself in a labor camp.
* cultural oppression - the Uighurs in the northwest are not particularly pleased with being part of China. There are also problems in Tibet, although the situation is much more complex than the cartoon version most westerners seem to believe. On the other hand, there seems to be growing interest in preserving and promoting the cultures of China's many other minorities.
* the press is part of the gov't - thank heavens for the Internet!
* lack of control - for better or worse, the central gov't is unable to exert control over the entire political system. Not only do multiple centers of political power exist (e.g. wealthy cities/provinces, the military, large corporations), but also players on the periphery (e.g. local Party officials in remote areas) can become abusive, petty tyrants.
Most of these problems are inter-related, and I think most of them would be largely remedied by a multi-party system. I think that is most likely to occur through a split in the existing Party, as opposed to development of a new party.
Having said all that, I must point out that most of these problems affect relatively small groups of people, or only affect the general population in small ways. Some examples: everyone knows how to deal with corrupt officials (you pay a higher price, cultivate their boss, or go to a competing bureau). Anyone interested in alternative news sources simply uses the web. And few Chinese are interested in western religion or forming alternative political parties, so many of these problems are simply not so great as they appear through a western lens.
There are, however, geographic areas where concentrated problems are quite serious, such as some of the "rust belt" cities in the northeast where the new economic forces are throwing thousands out of work with no social safety net to support them.
I think most of China's citizens would not consider themselves oppressed, and would compare their society and political system pretty favorably with those of the US. When you compare quality of life in a big Chinese city with that of a big American city, I would certainly have to agree. Americans, applying their own cultural norms to Chinese society, tend to place an overly high value on things like freedom of religion while completely overlooking others more important to Chinese, such as freedom from crime. The latter was very revealing to me -- until you live in a place like this, you can have no idea of the many small prices Americans pay each day to live in such a dangerous society. I am reminded of this every time I walk fearlessly down a cramped, dark alley in the middle of the night.
Another important factor not often understood by Americans is that many Chinese will accept more gov't control in exchange for increased national stability. Consider that periods of instability in China's past have often meant enormous hardship and casualties. Many fear that overt political competition at the national level will lead to dangerous instability, and perhaps even dismemberment of the country. They look at the rapid improvement of living standards going on around them, and feel that now is not the time to experiment with large-scale political change.
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
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"I think most of China's citizens would not consider themselves oppressed, and would compare their society and political system pretty favorably with those of the US."
Heaven help us.
Edit: the other parts of your post were informative. However, I would note that current stability is no indication of future stability. Indeed, the government is doing completely opposite of what is in the long-term interests of the country with regard to stability. This stability hinges on the soon to be tsunami of urbanization.
Last edited by DanS on 09-09-2002 at 04:34
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:22
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quote:
Originally posted by mindseye
I'd say they are suffering from Communism. A monolithic, single-party form of gov't is destined to have major problems. The Party's Number One priority, like any human institution, is survival. Survival of the Party, that is. The welfare of the country is also high on the list, but it is subservient to Party survival. From this single fact stems most of China's worst problems today, which would include: |
The list of problems you provided could apply to dozens of non-communist, economically developing countries. It could also be argued that the communist party is keeping these problem under far better control than in many non-communist countries (e.g. Russia).
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:22
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quote:
I would note that current stability is no indication of future stability. Indeed, the government is doing completely opposite of what is in the long-term interests of the country with regard to stability. |
Are you talking about the PRC or the USA?  
quote:
Yes. I still hold to my belief that a halfway point doesn't really exist in matters of essential liberty. However, I will accept your word that things are improving in that arena. |
You are the very model of reasonability today! The way I look at it, if you are in church having a private dialog with your god, taking sacraments, etc, does it really matter all that much if your archbishop was chosen by a bureaucrat in Beijing, or a bureaucrat in Rome? Also, I think there really are degrees of liberties, but that's another discussion. Come visit China soon! 
quote:
The list of problems you provided could apply to dozens of non-communist, economically developing countries. It could also be argued that the communist party is keeping these problem under far better control than in many non-communist countries (e.g. Russia). |
I agree 100%! I provided that list for reasons of balance. Too often I find myself defending the rulers of the PRC, who I really dislike. China deserves far better, and I fervantly hope I live to see that day.
quote:
Comparing the political system favorably with that of the US? Does this need further comment? |
Sorry, I did not write carefully enough. I agree with them in that, comparing urban middle classes, their daily life is not so different from life in the west (e.g. I live in a pretty typical middle class Chinese apartment building, and it's one of the nicest places I have ever lived).
Many Chinese really do think their political system is pretty good compared with that of the US, but here I do not agree with them. For some, their view of the US system is simply based on misinformation. They see the US system as being inherently unstable, prone to acrimony and corruption, and given to rampant imperialism (compared with their own peace-loving gov't). It's hard to answer if a Chinese person asks you if you think you vote counts as much as Ken Lay's. 
Last edited by mindseye on 10-09-2002 at 08:05
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ranskaldan
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Beijing ~ Singapore ~ Toronto ~ All hail to the new Rome
Sep 2001
time: 00:22
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Let me just put it this way.
Most Chinese do know how democracies work and how dictatorships work. They know which countries are democracies and which countries are dictatorships. They know that they live under a dictatorship.
However, they consider Democracy and Dictatorship to be two systems both having merits and side effects, just like Socialism and Capitalism. In fact, if a system produces results, (as the logic goes) then it's a good system, and since the current Chinese system seems to be churning along nicely, why fix something that isn't broken? There's the fear that if you fix something that isn't broken, you'll eventually break it - and China's social and economic structure has been broken too many times in the past two centuries.
To quote something Deng Xiaoping said: "Who cares if it's a black or white cat, it's a good cat if it can catch mice." This sentence was then wildly and madly condemned by Mao, who considered it blasphemy against the principles of Only-Communism-can-work and Capitalism-can-go-to-hell.
Americans, on the other hand, generally go with the Universal Law that democracy is the only viable system, that no dictatorship can be moral and efficient. That's mostly true, especially if we look at prominent examples like Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. But we've got exceptions. The Chinese live under a pretty rare exception (another one would be pre-90's South Korea), and so their viewpoints sound highly warped to American ears.
And finally, to DanS:
We're all doing fine, so we don't really need any help from heaven right now.
Last edited by ranskaldan on 10-09-2002 at 08:44
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Lord Merciless
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People often forget the Rule of Law. Democracy with Rule of Law is just as corrupt as any dictatorship, India makes a prime example here. A dictatorship that can actually carry out the Rule of Law is often not corrupt, for example Singapore.
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ranskaldan
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Beijing ~ Singapore ~ Toronto ~ All hail to the new Rome
Sep 2001
time: 00:22
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Yep, Singapore is another good example. 30 years of a Dictatorship pretending to be a Democracy, and yet, 30 years of phenomenal economic growth. Singapore's GDP per capita, at $26000+, is 5th in the world (behind Luxembourg, US, Bermuda, Switzerland.)
The biggest problem, however, is that Dictatorships don't actually have any proper mechanism to maintain Rule of Law. So, examples like Singapore and modern China are rare exceptions.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Merciless
People often forget the Rule of Law. Democracy with Rule of Law is just as corrupt as any dictatorship, India makes a prime example here. A dictatorship that can actually carry out the Rule of Law is often not corrupt, for example Singapore. |
Other than the fact that Lee's son will become the next prime minister, a daughter-in-law was recently named to run a major state investment corporation, and Lee is still in charge of the Government Investment Corporation (whose accounts are kept secret).
Edit: Forgot to mention that one of Lee's son is the CEO of Singapore Telecom.
Of course, we can't write that in Singapore, otherwise we'd end up in court.
See:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/29/opinion/29SAFI.html
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:22
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quote:
(Chinese) consider Democracy and Dictatorship to be two systems both having merits and side effects
(...)
Americans, on the other hand, generally go with the Universal Law that democracy is the only viable system. |
I think that's a very accurate observation. I would only replace "viable" with "desirable" - other systems might work and survive, but democracy is seen as the most favorable. I personally agree ... but then, I'm American.
quote:
People often forget the Rule of Law. Democracy with(out) Rule of Law is just as corrupt as any dictatorship, India makes a prime example here. A dictatorship that can actually carry out the Rule of Law is often not corrupt, for example Singapore. |
Excellent point. One can be oppressed under either. I suppose the difference is that under a dicatorship, the oppression can be actively directed by the gov't, whereas in the case of a corrupt democracy, it is a failure of the system. Good poll thread topic: which would you rather live under - a corrupt, inefficient democracy, or a benign, efficient dictatorship?
quote:
In Hong Kong driving can be pretty hair-raising, but at least the drivers pay attention to most of the rules. |
Jeez, compared to mainlanders, HK drivers are quiet, patient - even downright polite! On occasion they will yield to you, even waving you ahead! Shocking! And they seldom honk their horns! Shanghai is the Wild West in comparison - right turn on red without stopping (or even slowing), rampant red light running, Law of Tonnage (must yield to larger vehicles or be killed), not to mention the horrendous horn-honking cacophony (banned in other civilized places like Beijing). From what I have seen, the outer provinces are even worse. In Xi'an, I remember taxis driving down crosswalks, and even on the sidewalk! 
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07-09-2002 10:05
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I thought Mindseye's comment were quite accurate. 
Yup. 
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