07-09-2002 20:29									#31
	Tired of ads?

quote: That's quite annoying 'cause in a large city that means it takes me 3 turns to travel from 1 side of town to the other.

Traffic lock! It's even more realistic than we thought!

	07-09-2002 20:44									#32
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by mapfi Traffic lock! It's even more realistic than we thought!

Exactly what i was thinking But somewhat frustrating for the player.

	07-09-2002 21:45									#33
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quote: 2) City tile imps can be built over roads/railroads (leaving them intact) but I can't build roads/railroads over city tile imps. That's quite annoying 'cause in a large city that means it takes me 3 turns to travel from 1 side of town to the other. Either city tile imps should have the same movement effects as roads/cities or one should be allowed to build roads on top of them...

BlueO set it up so they gave movement bonus'. I like it that way.

quote: 6) I noticed that some 1-tile island cities right next to a larger continent had city imp on the main continent. Looks rather odd. Not sure if this should be fixed, but I thought I'd at least mention it...

Like New York.

	07-09-2002 23:03									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus 1) When I build regular tile imps myself (roads, fortesses, farms, etc), sometimes I the first tile imp I place in a given turn is created instantly, I don't have to wait the usual 1-4 turns before it's finished. The game seems to think it's a city tile imp and creates it instantaneously...

I will take a look at this. I know where the problem is. Seems like i was so careful with the subneural ads that i forgot to take a better care of one of the global variables that takes care of finish improvements. I will look at this now.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus 2) City tile imps can be built over roads/railroads (leaving them intact) but I can't build roads/railroads over city tile imps. That's quite annoying 'cause in a large city that means it takes me 3 turns to travel from 1 side of town to the other. Either city tile imps should have the same movement effects as roads/cities or one should be allowed to build roads on top of them...

It should be possible. This is a problem in the tileimp.txt not in the code. I will check this out.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus 3) Sometimes, when certain cities to a size where they should get a new city tile imp, they don't get this, even though there is plenty of room to create them. The city itself continues to grow just fine, but no additional tile imps are created. As I said, this oddly enough appears to happen only in some cities and after a while the effect dissappears again and city imps are created normally again upon city growth...

That is really odd. Did not appear in any of my testings. How often did this occur. Did it happen in a certain city size more often? It seems to be a problem in the trigger. Otherwise the city was not going to grow.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus 4) When the population of a city shrinks and a tile imp needs to be turned into a ruin, not 1 but *all* tile imps are turned into ruinn.

Are you sure at all. This has bee sucessfully tested severl times by me. only one city expansion should die at all. That is the most strange of your comment. since i am sure this should work properly.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus 5) Should it be possible to build tile imps in forests and on hills? 'Cause If seen it happens many, many times, even when there were still grassland/plains tiles available. I don't really mind myself, but I don't think this is supposed to happen (but I must say that it would make more sense to fill up plains/grassland first before moving to less habitable terrain).

The human expansion is chaotic. Land City expansions can be created in any land tile except moutains (brown, white, green). And if there is a forest, jungle, swamp The city gets created normally but the tile is terraformed to plains (The humans destroing the enviroment). Hills are no problem to the expansion.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus 6) I noticed that some 1-tile island cities right next to a larger continent had city imp on the main continent. Looks rather odd. Not sure if this should be fixed, but I thought I'd at least mention it...

Fix? Why? This is such a cool feature. Note that the other way around also happens (main continents creatin cities in islands). I think if a terrain is in the city radius there is no problem if a city expansion is created there. Like IW said we have plenty of example in real life like New York - US, Rio de Janeiro - BR, Vancouver - CAN, etc

quote: Originally posted by Locutus 7) pillaging tiles doesn't shrink the population of the city, I thought this was supposed to happen - or am I mistaken?

This isnt included yet but i plan to add this in late updates.

	08-09-2002 05:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG's How come in the last two screens it is modern era yet most of the city expansion is renaissance era. Should these not automatically change to modern style?

I had focused very strongly on growth throughout the game. By the time I got to the modern age, the size of my cities was well ahead of what should be considered normal during the modern age, so growth eventually slowed to a crawl as overcrowding was huge (the fact that the original game is very unbalanced also played a major part in this of course). Updating the tile imps only takes place during city growth, so in my case it hardly took place at all during the Modern Age as my cities hardly grew (but it went very rapidly in the Renaissance Age when my cities were booming). In most games things will probably change more gradually and more evenly spread.

quote: Originally posted by mapfi Traffic lock! It's even more realistic than we thought!

Hadn't thought of that yet...

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn That is really odd. Did not appear in any of my testings. How often did this occur. Did it happen in a certain city size more often? It seems to be a problem in the trigger. Otherwise the city was not going to grow.

It happened to two cities or so in the Ancient Age (around size 9, I suppose) and to a lot more cities in the Renaissance Age (at several sizes, I paid very close attention to that). I will need to do further testing myself to determine exactly how often and when it happens, but I can't promise I can do this anytime soon. You and others really ought to play with this mod a lot more to find out exactly if this is indeed a problem and if so, what exactly is causing it.

quote: Are you sure at all. This has bee sucessfully tested severl times by me. only one city expansion should die at all. That is the most strange of your comment. since i am sure this should work properly.

Yes, I'm quite sure, it happened with 3 cities (well, actually with 5 but 2 only had 1 tile). Very odd, maybe it only happens under certain circumstances? (Although I haven't seen it work properly at all)

	08-09-2002 11:59									#36
	Update v2.2 Put an end to popups!

Sorry Locutus but i want a second opinion in the items 3 and 4 of you comments. It is working fine in my PC. Could you test this again with this new update (if you dont have time could at least do it through the Cheat Editor). Any one got the same problems as Locutus.

Update v2.1:

--> A dead city last only 100 turns. If the dead city doesnt get terraformed or replaced by a regular city and this times has passed it just disapears to simulate the reclaims of nature.

--> Making impossible the creating of a certain city improvement if the player doesnt have the required advance of the age.

--> Fixing the giving of the advance Subneural Ads when creating a city.

Update v2.2

--> The traffic feature is out . You can place roads improvements over cities now (not dead ones though) .

--> The finishing of regular improvements before the expected time shouldnt be a problem anymore.

Attachment: cityxupdate.zip
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	08-09-2002 12:01									#37
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

CityX addon for the Apolyton Pack + Update v2.2

Attachment: apolytoncityx.zip
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).

	10-09-2002 10:41									#38
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So did anyone tested the new update? I do want to know what others people had experienced.

Locutus I will pack a new file with the patchs and the Apolyton Pack Addon. And Probably for the GoodMod too. Tomorrow i will send you. Should i use modify link or just show you the new link?

	10-09-2002 18:05									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If you can provide Cradle-compatible files, that would be great. You can use 1.32 as your base.

All I will need are the text files, as I already have the graphics, courtesy of Visible Wonders.

	10-09-2002 18:45									#40
	Put an end to popups!

I've been having more problems with my CtP2 lately, I'll do a complete reinstall and then try the mod again. I'll let you know if I find any other problems, assuming I get around to it soon enough...

For the database: the existing entry is for the original game, so you'll need to use 'modify link' for that (but sending me the URL is good too). To submit an Apolyton Pack version of this mod (and Goodmod and other mods), you'll have to submit a new file and fill in all fields as usual.

	10-09-2002 20:22									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was thinking to make those mod addons already included in the whole pack. Like Martin did in his good mod.

I will use the 'modify link' then. I was just wondering what would be best for you.

Hexagonian, i can do a City Expansion version for craddle. If you are interested PM me. I need to make a few questions about your mod.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 10-09-2002 at 20:37

	17-09-2002 18:30									#42
	Put an end to popups!

I noticed in another thread that you were going to post an updated version of City Expansion. Is this something I should wait for before posting Cradle 1.33, or does the file you sent me for Cradle already have the changes you are making for this update?

	17-09-2002 19:59									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No need to wait. I sent you the version 2.2. The updates in this thread have this mean and it is the best version until now.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 17-09-2002 at 21:11

	17-09-2002 22:04									#44
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: From CX_SettlerRhules.slc // // Causes the settler to die i could fix this with Creat Unit but as i said // this may even be a feature. In the later version i will fix this // HandleEvent(CreateCity) 'ShallowSeaSettlingIsAProblem' pre { int_t TType; location_t tmpLoc; tmpLoc = location[0]; TType = TerrainType(tmpLoc); if(TType == TerrainDB(TERRAIN_WATER_BEACH) || TType == TerrainDB(TERRAIN_WATER_KELP) || TType == TerrainDB(TERRAIN_WATER_REEF) || TType == TerrainDB(TERRAIN_WATER_SHALLOW) || TType == TerrainDB(TERRAIN_WATER_SHELF)) { CreateUnit(g.player, UnitDB(UNIT_SEA_ENGINEER), tmpLoc, 0); return STOP; } }

Just use the SettleOrder event instead of the CreateCity event and you don't need to recreate the settler. As you don't have any huts on sea tiles you just need one event handler triggerd on the SettleOrder event and none triggerd on the CreateCity event. So far I only downloaded version 2.0 from the directory therefore I have no idea if you already found out this on your own.

-Martin

	29-09-2002 15:41									#45
	Suffering from ads?

Actually I had the same bug, for my WWII scenario, someway the civ was getting the subneural ad.
I am a brutal guy, so I fixed the problem by building a new agestylecity.txt file that gave to every city the modern city immage.
Yet I still have to fix the expansion mod in order to grow only as a modern city though.

	29-09-2002 15:44									#46
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Do you have the patch v2.2 installed?

It fix the subneural add giving.

	07-10-2002 05:39									#47
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Pedrunn, with all the updating of the cityexpansion that was done, is the file in the file forum the latest version? Or does it need to be updated with the new files here?

Thanks in advance

	07-10-2002 08:19									#48
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Hey I had a thought when playing with the city expansion mod. Why not make it so that after the discovery of Nationalism or Guerilla warfare, each city tile gets one or two defenders (with a good defense bonus because of the urban environment). Also, after you defeat the defenders in a city tile, the ownership of that tile is transferred to you.

I think it would make attacking cities in the modern age much more difficult just like it is in the real world.

	07-10-2002 15:20									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Pedrunn, with all the updating of the cityexpansion that was done, is the file in the file forum the latest version? Or does it need to be updated with the new files here?

The database mod is an old version. You need the update 2.2 to have the latest code

quote: Hey I had a thought when playing with the city expansion mod. Why not make it so that after the discovery of Nationalism or Guerilla warfare, each city tile gets one or two defenders (with a good defense bonus because of the urban environment).

Could be done but i dont like this abudance of free unit. This will make the sstrong cives stronger. I rather give the city tiles a bonus in defense to have this effect.

quote: Also, after you defeat the defenders in a city tile, the ownership of that tile is transferred to you.

Unffortunetly this will cause some strange things like a tile around a city have a diferent owner that is miles away in another continent for example.
Thanks for the suggestions.
And i am waiting for the comments

	07-10-2002 17:48									#50
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I rather give the city tiles a bonus in defense to have this effect.

A very realistic thing, but that'd mean the heal rate for units should be the same on those tiles, other city improvement bonus should also apply - like the forcefield, that'd include the suburbs for sure, and, and, and - so maybe it's not doable or playable after all

	07-10-2002 18:50									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn Could be done but i dont like this abudance of free unit. This will make the sstrong cives stronger. I rather give the city tiles a bonus in defense to have this effect.

It would make the weak cities stronger too. Since in most games the human player is the agressor at the end, it would slow down his conquest. Also, when attacking a city in the real world (as if that applies to the game ), the fighting starts in the outer parts of the city not just in downtown.

Perhaps, I can test some code that does this and then comment on whether or not it's useful.

Regarding the defensive bonus, I haven't built a city shield in a city yet (I'm that new to CTPII ) so I didn't think about that. But I think the suburbs should have a good defense value.

Begin real world examples ... now: in the ancient world they made the roads in the cities and suburbs deliberately confusing so that an attacker would get lost and could be more easily defeated. In modern times with guns and rifles, it's the urban jungle effect with cities one of the most dangerous places to fight.

	07-10-2002 22:25									#52
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn The database mod is an old version. You need the update 2.2 to have the latest code

So did you resubmit the newest version so that Locutus can add it when he will return?

-Martin

	08-10-2002 05:25									#53
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I will do that!

Where is Locutus? Did he travelled?

	08-10-2002 22:09									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn Where is Locutus? Did he travelled?

He didn't travel. I would call it a very serious private issure in his real live. I can understand that this is more improtant for him then anything else. But I want to keep it in private and want to leave it to Locutus wheather to talk about it or not.

-Martin

	20-10-2002 07:03									#55
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Pedrunn, I just have to say this is by far my favorite mod. I will go to war with any civilization if I think they might pillage one of my suburb tiles.

One thing you should know though is that if you have a damaged unit that spends a turn on the suburb tile, it instantly goes back to 100%, even though in though in the city it only regains strength at 5% a turn (in cradle). In other words it has the same heal effect as a fort, perhaps this should be changed?

	21-10-2002 19:08									#56
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Pedrunn, I just have to say this is by far my favorite mod.

Thanks this is something great to hear

quote: One thing you should know though is that if you have a damaged unit that spends a turn on the suburb tile, it instantly goes back to 100%, even though in though in the city it only regains strength at 5% a turn (in cradle). In other words it has the same heal effect as a fort, perhaps this should be changed?

Are you playing it with Craddle???
Since in the regular game the units does heal instantly in cities.
Any way i will look at it.

	21-10-2002 23:34									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn Thanks this is something great to hear Are you playing it with Craddle??? Since in the regular game the units does heal instantly in cities. Any way i will look at it.

Yes, I'm using both Cradle and City Expansion. So the heal rate should be way down in the cities and non-existant outside them.

	22-10-2002 17:41									#58
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Hex recently discovered that the instant healing is provided if the tile imp has any defense bonus - so I presume the suburbs do. Can you do without it?

	22-10-2002 18:22									#59
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quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway Hex recently discovered that the instant healing is provided if the tile imp has any defense bonus - so I presume the suburbs do. Can you do without it?

Glad the problem has been figured out. I will drop the defense bonus for the cities, it hasn't really figured into my gameplay yet.

	24-10-2002 16:32									#60
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Ok a few notes on this mod
1) Its fantastic I really do love it and very annoyingly I only really play MM2 so dont get to experiance it


2) Why are not all the expansion types used, I think it would be good too at least include the alternative ancient city expansion

3) Is it true that once you have an expansion (just say u got it in ancient age) it will not change unless pillaged therefore u can be in the genetic era or modern and still have an expansion that is left in the ancient era (if this is the case I think it should be changed so that when u go to a new era, along with your cities changing your expansions should automatically change too)

Once again great mod, very good (whens the MM2 version )