07-09-2002 02:56									#61
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I avoid Pentiums sorry... I am an AMD person and will never switch no matter what.

I am talking about Video cards not CPUs. What does the NV30 feature exactly? My Geforce2 TI450 with 64mb is fine for now... but the upgrade may have to come soon.

	07-09-2002 02:57									#62
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http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4409117

8016 and no overclocking (except the card 240 / 520)

	07-09-2002 02:59									#63
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Let's put it this way:
GeForce 1/2 (NV10/15) -> DirectX 7: Fixed function everything, 32-bit integer precision, very little flexibility, 4 pipelines, 128-bit memory bus
GeForce 3/4 (NV20/25) -> DirectX 8: Most things reprogrammable (vertex/pixel shaders), 32-bit integer precision, a lot of flexibility, 4 pipelines, 128-bit memory bus
NV30 -> DirectX 9: Everything reprogrammable, 128-bit floating point precision, a lot more flexibility, 8 pipelines, 256-bit memory bus

Not to mention stuff like 32GB/s of memory bandwidth (GeForce 4 Ti4600's is 10.4GB/s)

	07-09-2002 03:01									#64
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Okay... the NV30 might be the way to go... but any estimate of the price when it comes out? Nothing over $190... my dad probably won't like me suggesting anything over that price.

	07-09-2002 03:02									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Okay... the NV30 might be the way to go... but any estimate of the price when it comes out? Nothing over $190... my dad probably won't like me suggesting anything over that price.

The top of the line NV30 will probably be $399.

They're supposedly going to launch a ton of different boards though, to cover every aspect of the market, so I'm sure there'd be a castrated board in your pricerange.

	07-09-2002 03:03									#66
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$190 for a top of he range brand new card. When I first got my GeForce 3 it was £370 ($600).

	07-09-2002 03:06									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The top of the line NV30 will probably be $399. They're supposedly going to launch a ton of different boards though, to cover every aspect of the market, so I'm sure there'd be a castrated board in your pricerange.

Damn... my dad would never pay that price...

I am hoping they do have a cheaper but well performing alternative...

Matty, you got ripped off. No offense.

	07-09-2002 03:08									#68
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I got it practically the first day it came out, it was the best card on the market and it can still hanle everything I throw at it. I've had it well over a year. I wouldn't say I was ripped off.

	07-09-2002 03:11									#69
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs I got it practically the first day it came out, it was the best card on the market and it can still hanle everything I throw at it. I've had it well over a year. I wouldn't say I was ripped off.

Well I wouldn't say you made a good decision because of the advancements made. Because the same card sells today for $130-$150...

$600 US still seems to be a very high price to pay for even a high end video card.

	07-09-2002 03:15									#70
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The GeForce Ti4600 was around £350 when it was first released over here too, infact so was the GeForce 2 Ultra. It's just the way the market is.

	07-09-2002 03:39									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Well I wouldn't say you made a good decision because of the advancements made. Because the same card sells today for $130-$150... $600 US still seems to be a very high price to pay for even a high end video card.

No offense, Fez, but you bought a GeForce 2 Ti.

By the time the GF2 Ti was launched there were far better deals out there.

	07-09-2002 06:00									#72
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I bought it because that was all my dad was willing to spend. And my Gainward Geforce2 TI450 is good enough for my uses... why the hell do I need anything better? Why? What do I do? I don't make graphics or anything.

	07-09-2002 06:01									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I bought it because that was all my dad was willing to spend. And my Gainward Geforce2 TI450 is good enough for my uses... why the hell do I need anything better? Why? What do I do? I don't make graphics or anything.

Because for the same pricepoint you could have gotten a DX8 part instead of DX7. I'm surprised anyone bought it...

	07-09-2002 06:06									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Because for the same pricepoint you could have gotten a DX8 part instead of DX7. I'm surprised anyone bought it...

Well that is my problem. And I didn't buy this one too recently...

	07-09-2002 06:09									#75
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My next graphics card will either be one of the NV30 range or the ATI 9700. I've not been impressed with nVidia in the past, ever since I got a GeForce 2MX I've always had problems.

	07-09-2002 06:11									#76
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs My next graphics card will either be one of the NV30 range or the ATI 9700. I've not been impressed with nVidia in the past, ever since I got a GeForce 2MX I've always had problems.

Trust me, ATi will give you more problems than Nvidia.

I say that from my personal experience (had a Radeon 64MB VIVO) and from work.

	07-09-2002 06:12									#77
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The NV30 will probably be the best one to get... My next solution... and knowing my dad I probably will have to get a trimmed down model.

	07-09-2002 06:17									#78
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Whatever you do Fez don't get a GeForce 4MX... horrible, horrible cards.

From all the reviews I've seen in magazines they've been raving about the 9700, and I also understand that the 9000 is the best budget card on the market, though I suppose that's no great feat when it's up against the 4mx.

I know ATI have had troubles in the past with their drivers, but nVidia always seems just to be generally buggy under certain circumstances. I never seem to hear about any bugs when people are running an nVidia card with a P4 though :hmm:

	07-09-2002 06:18									#79
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Ooh and the P4 3GHz chip is out in around December time.

	07-09-2002 06:21									#80
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I am not stupid... anything with MX in it... is no way.

I am going to stick with nVidia and am getting a new trusty AMD XP.

	07-09-2002 06:21									#81
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The problem isn't with Nvidia, it's with shitty Via/SiS/ALi.

Their southbridges are crap and don't work properly, which is why there's far more revisions of Via/SiS/ALi chips than Intel.

Intel puts their chipsets through literally months of testing for bugs before releasing, Via will spend a couple weeks and SiS/ALi probably a week. They just don't have a budget for it, mostly.

Lo and behold lots of Via/SiS/ALi chipsets have problems with video cards, from Nvidia to Matrox to ATI to S3. Why do you think every graphics card driver has a "enable compatibility mode" for ALI/SiS/Via but they don't have one for Intel?

	07-09-2002 06:22									#82
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nVidia cards seem to run a little too hot for my liking.

	07-09-2002 06:23									#83
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs nVidia cards seem to run a little too hot for my liking.

Then you shouldn't look at the 9700, it's even hotter than a GeForce 4 Ti4600...

It even requires an external power hookup.

	07-09-2002 06:37									#84
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Just read the review on tomshardware. It completely outclasses the Ti4600 but that can only be expected. I'm just looking if the NV30 chipset has been reviewed anywhere.

	07-09-2002 06:40									#85
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quote: nVidia's NV30 is surrounded by even bigger mystery than ATi's future chips - no surprise, nVidia will definitely release their fall part later than ATi, and will probably start shipping much later.

	07-09-2002 06:43									#86
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It's due out in Nov/December, the same time DirectX 9 is released.

Someone wanna explain to me why anyone would upgrade to a Radeon 9700 now, when a better DX9 part will be out when DX9 is released?

	07-09-2002 06:45									#87
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But will it be a better DX9 part?

	07-09-2002 06:50									#88
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs But will it be a better DX9 part?

It definitely will.

The Radeon 9700's clockspeed is severely inhibited because it's on the 0.15 process. Nvidia's DX9 part is going to be on the 0.13 process, which means the chip is smaller and will clock higher and produce less heat. The 0.13 process won't be ready for the mass market until Nov/Dec though, the same time as DX9's release.

It's also well known that NV30 will be 8 pipelines, with 2 texture units each (Radeon 9700 is 8 with 1 texture unit each), NV30 will use a 256-bit bus with 1GHz DDR-II RAM (Radeon 9700 uses a 256-bit bus with 700(?)MHz DDR-I RAM), and NV30's specs are well beyond the 9700's.

Stuff like supporting 65K instructions per shader program instead of 1024 on the Radeon...

It's on the 0.13 process, so they can do more things.

	07-09-2002 07:31									#89
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http://www.3dcenter.de/artikel/2002/07-14_english_a.php

This is where I was looking at the comparison. I know the stats, and the NV30 certainly has the potential to be better. Which is why I'm waiting for benchmarks for the NV30 and the drop in price within the first two months. Then I'll make my decision.

ooh and

quote: The switch to 0.13 micron is already planned so a spring refresh is a definite possibility. We still think this switch is highly unlikely to occur before the end of the year, mostly because of currently insufficient capacities at TSMC on this process.

	07-09-2002 07:38									#90
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Hey I've noticed you're always logging in and out of MSN.... computer not stable?