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TheStinger
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International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I'm sorry Stinger. But you have the logic completely backwards. The question is not whether Germany could defeat Britain and France, but whether the two could defeat Germany. Remember, it was not Germany that declared war.
As to Poland, IIRC, Britain and France carved off whole German territories at the end of WWI and gave them to Poland. What really was at stake in Poland was whether Britain and France could maintain any portion of the Treaty of Versailles. But clearly, they didn't have the power to do it and should have simple asked Poland to give back the stolen German lands.
Talk about arrogance. The Euros claim the US is arrogant today because we are a superpower. But then, my god, England and France really thought they could dictate terms to Germany when Germany was equally as powerful, at least. That is the very definition of arrogance. |
What utter bollocks, The British declared war on germany because they had a moral obligation to do so, we didn't over czechoslovakia and the majority of the country felt guilty over it. In 1939 Britian was not dictatting terms to Germany it was following its treaty obligations how can that be arrogance.
If they are stolen lands why haven't the germans got them now?
Hitler used the versailles treaty as a pretext for war, yes it was unfair on germany but Hitler would have gone to war eventualy anyway.
Britain has done many things in the past it should be ahamed of, declaring war on germany isn't one of them
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Rogan, since you are French, why, in your opinion, did France declare war on Germany? |
I am British. I just fly the French flag because I live there, and everyone keeps French bashing these days. Someone has to stick up for them. It is actually the nicest place I have ever lived (and I have lived in the UK, Germany and the US).
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Um, no, I don't. Please explain how they are contradictory, because they aren't. |
Your first statement was:
quote:
I was just pointing out that the Brits were fighting tooth-and-nail, as you put it, because Hitler was at their doorstep and bombing the bejezuz out of them.
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which implies that the Brits were only fighting because they had been attacked, while your second statement,
quote:
And, ya know, the UK declared war on Germany, not vice-versa, so it's their own damn fault they were fighting tooth-and-nail.
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correctly states that the UK declared war first. These seem contradictory to me (or are you saying that the only fought 'tooth and nail' after an initial bout of gentlemanly fighting? 
quote:
You just seem to imply the U.S. should have been there sooner, to which I answer, why? |
Well, as already stated, the UK was in no direct threat from Germany. The British declared war to protect the rights of Poland when they were invaded. One might suppose that the US would feel a similar obligation to oppose unfettered aggression, even if it was not in their own backyard. They certainly would have if Poland had oil....
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Your first statement was:
which implies that the Brits were only fighting because they had been attacked, while your second statement,
correctly states that the UK declared war first. These seem contradictory to me (or are you saying that the only fought 'tooth and nail' after an initial bout of gentlemanly fighting?
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You're misreading it. The first statement was simply why the Brits were fighting so hard, the second was about why they were fighting in the first place.
quote:
Well, as already stated, the UK was in no direct threat from Germany. The British declared war to protect the rights of Poland when they were invaded. One might suppose that the US would feel a similar obligation to oppose unfettered aggression, even if it was not in their own backyard. They certainly would have if Poland had oil.... |
Bingo. It was a European conflict that the U.S. didn't have any reason to be concerned with, at least not enough to have direct involvement. Popular sentiment in the U.S. wasn't in favor of entering the war, there just wasn't a reason.
Britain had a more compelling one, if just the halting of Hitler's megalomaniacal expansion and not letting Germany dominate the continent. That, and Churchill was ardently anti-Hitler and had said in 1936 they should go to war and get rid of him and the Nazis.
The U.S. entered the war when its interests were attacked. That's what countries are supposed to do, isn't it?
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Bereta_Eder
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Posts which you don't like are trolls.
Better to not like your insulting ignorance of the facts. That way you'll better yourselves.
Not being able to differianciate between Nazi Germany and the horrours it did and Europe is not only a handicap but an offensive ignorance to countries which fought against the Nazis.
I'm not expecting a post to make up for your educational shortcomings. But maybe, at least, some would read it and fewer will get it and start educating themselves.
Another alarming issue is that you don't seem to understand the monstrocity of Nazi Germany and that you tend to equate puppet regimes installed by it with the Nazis themselves.
Yet another disturbing fact is that you don't know that Jews were not the only victimes.
You also have a total lack of knowledge when it comes to different European countries. Apart form some exceptions you are tottally oblivious except to some striking examples.
Moreover, the most discomforting fact is that your ignorance of the monstrocity that was Nazi Germany leads some of you (especially those americans with german roots) to admire her power.
It is like admiring the genious of Bin Laden and his attacks against the US.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Posts which you don't like are trolls.
Better to not like your insulting ignorance of the facts. That way you'll better yourselves.
Not being able to differianciate between Nazi Germany and the horrours it did and Europe is not only a handicap but an offensive ignorance to countries which fought against the Nazis.
I'm not expecting a post to make up for your educational shortcomings. But maybe, at least, some would read it and fewer will get it and start educating themselves.
Another alarming issue is that you don't seem to understand the monstrocity of Nazi Germany and that you tend to equate puppet regimes installed by it with the Nazis themselves.
Yet another disturbing fact is that you don't know that Jews were not the only victimes.
You also have a total lack of knowledge when it comes to different European countries. Apart form some exceptions you are tottally oblivious except to some striking examples.
Moreover, the most discomforting fact is that your ignorance of the monstrocity that was Nazi Germany leads some of you (especially those americans with german roots) to admire her power.
It is like admiring the genious of Bin Laden and his attacks against the US. |
Hey paiktis, did you read that Jager link I posted. Anyone who reads it will know that Hitler was killing a lot of people (communists, Gypsies, the handicapped and the mentally diseased) besides the Jews and that the locals were highly invovled in the round up and the slaughter.
Deep in the report is fact that they executed one German who had converted to Judaism. Why? if the whole point was killing for racial purposes.
But back to England and France: Does anyone here realize that the slaughter of the Jews, et al., began after the war started? Hitler declared that if German soldiers and citizens (English bombing of German cities) were being killed, the enemies of the Reich would suffer a similar fate. While there is no guarantee that Hitler would not have eventually killed all the Jews, et al., that he could lay his hand on, the proximate cause of their death was the declaration of war by England and France.
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Bereta_Eder
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This is not limited to americans but to everybody, *everybody*, who fails to see Nazi Germany for the monstrocity that was and equates pupet regimes with Nazis.
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Bereta_Eder
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The pretext for this trhead was that american movie. How would you like to be associated with the Nazi scums?
Also I think that americans (and brits to a lesser extend) not having suffered through occupation are more pron to misinformation or lack of education about that subject. The same with other countries about other matters, of course.
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18-09-2002 14:18
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