12-09-2002 05:42									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit BTW, what's the max. number of units you can have? I have 600 and I've only done about 2/3 of NATO forces...

I read 2048 somewhere ...
Can't confirm that though.

	12-09-2002 10:15									#32
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About 2000 sounds right.

BTW, these sites should prove rather helpful for you:

NATO Order of Battle June 1989: http://www.orbat.com/site/data/hist...to/oob1989.html

NATO Air Forces Order of Battle June 1989: http://www.orbat.com/site/data/hist.../units1989.html

Warsaw Pact Order of Battle June 1989: http://www.orbat.com/site/data/hist...warsawpact.html

	12-09-2002 16:00									#33
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Yes, I found both of those orbats very useful, and they're my guides for unit placement. They're giant!

	12-09-2002 16:41									#34
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What does each unit represent? If you've placed 600, am I correct in guessing that you're attempting to represent NATO at a battalion level?

If so, for play concerns you should consider changing this to brigade or half a brigade level - 600 units is really way too many units to move in one turn, and it will take ages for the AI to move that many units.

	12-09-2002 19:37									#35
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Yes, I've tried roughly batallion level (more like half-brigade or brigade for artillery and air defense, but adding auxilliary units such as antitank infantry for mehanized brigades)

I'm definitely going to thin out NATO considerably - maybe remove 1/2 of all units. Especially since the Warsaw Pact has more units than NATO does, the 2048 limit would almost certainly be reached in the course of a scenario.

	13-09-2002 12:43									#36
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To avoid this, you could use the solution that I was implementing in my Red Storm scenario: NATO forces are represented at battalion level, but Soviet forces are represented a division level. This will allow you to considerably lower the number of units required to accurately represent the Warsaw Pact forces and also give you an excuse to make them more powerful and therefore create a more challenging game for the player.

	16-09-2002 07:00									#37
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*BUMP*

And a response:

There are too many NATO units for the player to reasonably move at battalion level! With ~500 combat-ready batallions from England, Germany, and the USA in Europe (and more on the way), not to mention France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, and Denmark, that's a helluva lot. I'm representing them both at 2 battalions per unit, with a 2194-days-style set of different rules depending on the human player.

I've got Germany, US ans UK down to 334 units, add the rest and that's maybe a total of 450. Add Warsaw Pact, that makes ~1100 units at the start of the game. To contrast, Red Front has about 1800. So this is still a veeeery large scenario (remember that in Red Front, the Germans had way more units and weren't human-controlled), but more manageable than what it was (i.e. 75% more units).

	16-09-2002 10:58									#38
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I repeat my question, will there be any naval battles what so ever?

	16-09-2002 21:52									#39
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Yes, there will be! Sub, surface, and naval air forces will be portrayed.

	16-09-2002 23:32									#40
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I just changed the city style (to Nemo's modern city with a few changes) and the Urban terrain graphic (to Nemo-style buildings). I also eliminated the grassland resource graphic, and changed the window background thingy. Tell me what you think.

Attachment: neth.gif
This has been downloaded 56 time(s).

	17-09-2002 00:01									#41
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Looks much better. Just two things, the countryside still looks pretty boring and I think a new airbase graphic would be nice.

How about some of that harvester and some hills?

You're pretty tired of me by now, eh?

	17-09-2002 00:27									#42
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How about these Airbase Graphics, i dont know who did them, i wasnt me though
But yes i agree with pavlov, the terrain needs a bit livening up, have special terrain like farms or such, ill post a few ideas when i find them

Attachment: airbase.gif
This has been downloaded 58 time(s).

	17-09-2002 00:33									#43
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Ok, i found them rather quick also you might want to use the mining graphic on this, more modern Again i stole shamelessly, but i dont know where from
Use what you want, kill the rest

Attachment: stuff.gif
This has been downloaded 58 time(s).

	17-09-2002 00:42									#44
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I think the airbase that Grothgar shows would be nice.

Some of those terrain thingys are Nemo's. I suggest using the papermill, the mansion and that little shed looking house.

Just my 0.02 kronor.

	17-09-2002 00:49									#45
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I tried the havester, but it didn't look good.

And the countryside is boring. There aren't any hills in the Netherlands, either.

But I did make a new airbase graphic.

Attachment: airbase.gif
This has been downloaded 56 time(s).

	17-09-2002 00:55									#46
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That is a nice airbase, but I fear it will look too small. Why don't you have a look at that airbase Grothgar showed? That harvester would look a bit monstrous on your map but how about a small house then?

Another thing: How close will this scen follow the book?

	17-09-2002 00:57									#47
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Thanks, Grothgar. I didn't see your airbase before I posted it, but I'm using it now. It's a modified Nemo graphic.

	17-09-2002 02:21									#48
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i assume that your making the scenario for people to play as Nato? because otherwise the AI would botch it with the f-19 with no movement during the day, it would also mess up if you made the HP/firepower/attack low during the day as well