11-10-2002 11:14									#91
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Is that good or bad? Personally I'm finding the way this thread is going very interesting.

	11-10-2002 22:58									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Tommara The original issue was whether or not "free will" and "doing what one is supposed to" are mutually exclusive. I said they were not mutually exclusive, because they can both occur at the same time. That does not preclude them NOT occurring at the same time. That double negative might be confusing, but I hope you understand what I mean.

I admit I've made a mistake. Partially because I think I had too wide (or at least much wider than yours) definition of 'free will'. I am used to considering many more things (e.g. many social unformal rules of behaviour) as a threat to free will.

I haven't admitted it earlier because I was sure we were far from this original issue, discussing freedom of choice approached by logic and by common sense.

quote: Seriously, it's difficult to know what one takes for granted. That's kind of like knowing what you don't know. I can think of many things that I should appreciate more than I do, but once I begin to know this, I'm not really taking it for granted it anymore, am I?

As far as I understand it, it's not true. For instance, you can think about these great amounts of air you are allowed to breathe, you can appreciate the fact you don't have to pay for this wonderful, lifegiving oxygen, and can still take breathing for granted (if term 'to take sthg for granted' doesn't have any hidden meaning unknown to me). Am I wrong at some point again?

	13-10-2002 06:03									#93
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I don't think you have to be unaware of an item (or idea) to take it for granted. The phrase is a subjective one in that it is based on the perception of the observer. It can refer to an undervaluation of the item or idea in the opinion of the observer. We are all aware of our legs, but not as aware of them as someone who has lost the use of their own legs.

	20-10-2002 22:26									#94
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It is impossible to tell wether the game is intellectually discriminating because none of us has ever met a Talent/Drone and asked them why they are doing what they are doing.
Until someone does that, I will have to say no because nowhere in the game does it say Dumb=Drone

	23-10-2002 13:54									#95
	Inflate your Upload Space

In some of the offical fiction (not the novels), I recall drones within the Hive being pretty much genetically lobotimised zombies. There's a sequence regarding the birth of Aki-Zeta Five where a drone picks up the wrong box of memory chips (or something like it), and is unable to realise his mistake because he lacks more than a few upper brain functions.

	23-10-2002 16:48									#96
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Drones vs. Workers vs. Talents?

Welcome to the Western workforce.

	23-10-2002 22:28									#97
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Sorry for the delay in responding - re-addicted to Everquest *sigh*.

Yeah, you're both right. What you "take for granted" is very subjective. But it does imply a certain lack of conscious thought or awareness. The "legs" example is a very good one. If someone asked me to list the things I take for granted, that's certainly one of the things I wouldn't think to list, although I most certainly do take them for granted.

Um, wait. I was asked about the things I take for granted, and my response did say that.

But to answer Kirov's original question, with the caveat that "I don't know what I don't know", here's somethings I take for granted, which I don't think is universally true for people in the entire world:

************************************

I take it for granted that someone in uniform is there to help me, or provide some kind of service to people.

I take it for granted that if something outrageously unjust were to happen to me, it would outrage my fellow Americans as well, and they would try to help me if my cause were truly just.

I take it for granted that I can buy more toys in a month than some people make in a year. My cable bill (TV and cable modem) alone is over $100, and could probably feed several people in other countries.

I take it for granted that the most onerous things I have to do are generally done for my own well-being, like go to work, cook, do the dishes, go to the dentist (ugh), etc.

Well, speaking of onerous, time to get back to work, heh.

	29-10-2002 22:32									#98
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The original question was, IIRC, why people hate Americans for the things they take for granted.

Just look at your list and bear in mind your own sentence: "it's not universally true for people in the entire world".

See?

	30-10-2002 22:56									#99
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Yes, I do see. That's what I thought I was answering, which I had side-stepped before.

	02-11-2002 23:49									#100
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Intellectually Discriminating?

Sure, the comlete game it is: It requires intelligence to play it well. Such isn't necessary for playing other games.