18-09-2002 09:27									#31
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Here ya go (I'm a big fan):

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=41321

	18-09-2002 09:56									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus My contribution; I have the 4000BC SAV if anybody wants it.

This is a good starting position, too, but still not a "to die for"
Maybe if you had some cattles

	18-09-2002 10:04									#33
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Yeah, I agree, not tremendous, but I started a game tonight and got this, and thought it was pretty damned good (I've been getting atrocious starts since 1.29f).

In the absence of cattle, what impressed me here was the balance... coming off of my Civ2 biases, I've grown to respect each of the tile types. Fer chrissakes, I look at unshielded grassland with joy!

	18-09-2002 10:19									#34
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Yeah, correct, I'd be too very grateful to start with one of the positions from this thread.

What are those feathers above the city?

	18-09-2002 15:16									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Moonsinger Sorry, on a scale 1 to 10, I give this starting position a 5. I have always played with the random map and I have seen many better starting position than this. PS: I like grassland and floodplain best. I don't like hill, mountain and ice.

Seems you have had some luck with the map generator. Can you show us what a 9 or 10 would look like in your opinion?

I mostly get shitloads of mountains, desert and jungle. What is really great with the starting position I gave you is the possibility to have a city with freshwater and 4 cattle - a real wonder machine, plus the fact that all cities closest to the capitol will be highly populated.

	18-09-2002 18:08									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre Seems you have had some luck with the map generator. Can you show us what a 9 or 10 would look like in your opinion?

Ok, I will dig out some old map tonight. I have some luck in getting the 7 or 8 position but never any higher. However, I have seen someone post a really good starting position (but never a 10, #10 is really what I would call 'to die for') on the CivFanantic forum before. Beside, it's very hard to get the 'to die for' starting position anyway. After 40 turns or so, you may realize that there is no iron or horse in your continent, therefore, what originally seems to be a good starting position is now actually no good.

IMO, Theseus has a better starting position than your map.

	18-09-2002 18:11									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius What are those feathers above the city?

It could be another kind of 'wheat'.

	18-09-2002 18:25									#38
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I checked Theseus' link and I think it's wheat.
But it really looks like feather

	18-09-2002 22:47									#39
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It's the special "feather" resource, which Liz and Cathy will pay anything for!!!

It's wheat.

	19-09-2002 00:29									#40
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I think I will dig up a starting spot or two I would consider "to die for" tonight and post some screenies. I am (notoriously?) picky. I love the "quickstart" feature

I have decided my favorite early game resource is cows on plains, provided there is water available. Why? Because all you gotta do is irrigate and road, and you get 3 food, 2 shields. A Cow on grassland will also provide 3/2, but you have to mine, which takes slightly longer.

Things I normally want in a starting spot: river, 1-2 food bonus squares, some shielded grassland, some forest or hills. In addition, I want some good cities sites nearby. If I'm industrious, forests become a bit more desirable due to the speed with which they can be converted into 10 shields. All that, and a minimum of two neighbors.

I hate floodplains. They cause disease.

-Arrian

	19-09-2002 02:17									#41
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A floodplain or two with wheat and a few hills with iron and gold is a nice combination. Decease is in my experience more common in jungle than on floodplains.

	19-09-2002 03:09									#42
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I'd say a start to die for would be similar to the one on Aeson's 65k game, lots of free space to expand, most of it being grassland, luxuries really close by, and plenty of cows and horses about. That's all you need for a great game on a huge map. I rarely get bad starts though myself, because I set up maps for the best land possible (I'm talking wet, warm/temperate, 5 billion years). But I've never seen a random start that topped that one.

	19-09-2002 03:18									#43
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For a second I misread that, and thought you were referring to Aeson's SVC game!!

I remember somebody on CFC showing off an insanely great start once; it was like a Civ3 Garden of Eden, or maybe the equivalent of Willie Wonka's factory... cows and wheat and rivers and luxuries *everywhere*. The number of cows was absurd, like the map generator treated them as clumped luxury resources at 3B.

	19-09-2002 03:19									#44
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Here is something along the lines of what I was talking about...

Attachment: nicestart.jpg
This has been downloaded 170 time(s).

	19-09-2002 03:24									#45
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Sweet.

	19-09-2002 03:41									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus For a second I misread that, and thought you were referring to Aeson's SVC game!!

SVC is more of a start to die from. I know I nearly had a heart attack when I first opened that thread.

	19-09-2002 04:29									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Here is something along the lines of what I was talking about...

That's a great one! There are plenty of floodplains with wheat near by too.

Olaf Hårfagre: To answer your question. I would give that Arrian map a 9. If it also has iron and luxury near by, it would definitely get a 9 and 1/2 in my book. If it also has iron and luxury near by and it's also on a large continent, it would be a 10 or a perfect starting position to die for.

	19-09-2002 05:20									#48
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Of course you don't know in the beginning, whether or not there is iron.

	19-09-2002 15:02									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Here is something along the lines of what I was talking about...

Yeah, I agree that's a good one. A little more bonus shields, golden hills, luxuries, iron and less desert would make it perfect, but it's anyway the best capitol location I have seen on a random map. If only the surrounding terrain is similar, then you are set for a nice game. Do you have a 4000 BC save?

	19-09-2002 17:44									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Of course you don't know in the beginning, whether or not there is iron.

And horse too. How did you guys get The Wheel to begin with? I checked the game manual and none of the civ starting out with The Wheel.

Olaf Hårfagre: I look up a couple of my game last night, but found none that could beat the starting position above.

	19-09-2002 18:16									#51
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The Japanese have one of the opening techs The Wheel.

Edited: ...and as you can see, both Theseus and Arrian have posted screenshots with japanese.

Last edited by Tiberius on 19-09-2002 at 18:26

	19-09-2002 18:26									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre Yeah, I agree that's a good one. A little more bonus shields, golden hills, luxuries, iron and less desert would make it perfect, but it's anyway the best capitol location I have seen on a random map. If only the surrounding terrain is similar, then you are set for a nice game. Do you have a 4000 BC save?

It's funny... I was searching through my saved games and came upon "NewJapan" I opened it, and it was the 4000bc save (yeah, I still have it, I can post it tonight if you want). I didn't recall ever playing it out. So, despite the fact that I had a successful Aztec game going, I started playing. This was around 6pm. I shut down the computer at 3:30am. It's a 10/10, Moonsinger.

If there is any interest, I will post the 4000bc save.

-Arrian

	19-09-2002 20:05									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Okay Theseus, what resource mod are you using?

Okay, I recognize the Wheat, and I'm assuming that's a Carosel Horse prancing around but what does the purple Kool-Aid represent? Wine? Is this the "Kindergarten Resource Mod"?

	19-09-2002 20:55									#54
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For anyone who lives in the northeast US, that's Happy, the Carvel Whale!!

The resource mod is here, if anybody wants it:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=41321

	19-09-2002 23:27									#55
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The German starting position on Marla Singers Earth map beats anything I have seen. But that's not a random map and each AI turn takes 15-20 minutes in the industrial age on my old 450 PII. Wait until November when I get my 2.53 Ghz P4 with 512 MB RAM and 128 MB Geforce4, then I will give it a try.

Attachment: marla start.jpg
This has been downloaded 126 time(s).

	20-09-2002 02:08									#56
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Olaf,

Since you asked, here is the 4000bc save for the screenshot I posted. It's a standard, continents, 8 civs, normal, normal, 4 billion map. Japan, cultural linking on.

-Arrian

Attachment: newjapan.sav
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).

	20-09-2002 02:50									#57
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Move Germany's settler onto the hill!!

	20-09-2002 04:29									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Move Germany's settler onto the hill!!

Absolutely!

Defense bonus and ALL the specials in the city radius.

	20-09-2002 04:31									#59
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The only thing I am unsure of is whether or not it can still get to size 12 if moved to the hill.

I (think) it can.

	20-09-2002 04:32									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Move Germany's settler onto the hill!!

I normally do. Anyway, Marla's map is to big to play on my old 450 PII computer so this screenshot is not from a game I was actually going to play. I might give it a try in November when I get my new computer.