16-09-2002 07:46									#31
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I'd settle for giving it to the Greeks or the Germans, but We definitely would profit more with a Roman/Greek war later, where our left over American forces march out and take the ivory and those 3-4 Greek cities closest to Chiquita.

	16-09-2002 09:15									#32
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I voted to give it to greece. No real reason for choosing them over germany as the victims, cept I dislike Alexander :P

EDIT: Oh and if we give it to greece, we have to rename it "Trojan Horse" first :P

	16-09-2002 10:11									#33
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No to Germany. I didn't like the movie Battlefield Earth, but Battlefield Apolytonia sounds worse.

No to Rome. Giving it to Rome would apease Ceaser for now (which is what we want), but he would attack in a few turns later anyway.

Yes to Greece. If we gave it to Greece, a Greco-Roman war would surly happen. One wouldn't wipe out the other, only a couple of cities taken at the most. Also, if Rome gets into a big war with Greece, then they will leave us alone (even try to bribe us) to squash Persia. The last arguement I have for Greece is Werdon's idea of renaming it "Trojan Horse". That is just to perfect to pass up!

	16-09-2002 10:23									#34
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Hurray for Romo - Grecian Conflict.
Hurray for Legions - Hopilites smashing each other.
Hurray for Trojan Horse.
Vote for Greece

(This Advertisement was not funded by Alexander)
Honest

	16-09-2002 12:37									#35
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I like the Trojan Horse idea!

How about a runoff poll between giving it to Greece, giving it to Germany and not giving it off at all?

	16-09-2002 14:00									#36
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In the very least, if we keep it, then make the laborer a scientist and drop sci rate to gain Lytons as I stated in another thread. The city is to far away and too corupt to build anything. Plus it will keep the pop down so unhappiness isn't a problem. Not to mention that coruption does not effect a specialist.

	16-09-2002 17:33									#37
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hi ,

read my lips *NO* , .....

have a nice day

	16-09-2002 18:02									#38
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Question: If you know the answer, can someone PM it to me and post that they did so (therefor I will not have 20 pm's saying the same thing).

Are the romans marching through our territory, or did they just enter it moving toward our city?

This is a HUGE difference. If they are marching on it, then they want the city (or at least want it gone as it should just autoraze at this point). If they are just marching through, then they are looking at it and seeing a tempting target (undefended and far away from our home) therefor getting antsy.

This will dictate my policy. I was planning on purchacing the spear this turn to keep it under control when it grows. Now I am very hesitant on wasting some money on this potential future productive city.

	16-09-2002 18:46									#39
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Seems they are just marching through, but nobody can be sure. The Romans have been around Cherbourg for centuries. Why take Cherbourg now?

	16-09-2002 18:55									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Seems they are just marching through, but nobody can be sure. The Romans have been around Cherbourg for centuries. Why take Cherbourg now?

hi ,

the AI has the tendency to go for poor or undefended cities , ......

actually it would be good to build a new city in the neigborhood , ....

Aro can you come up with a new area view of cherbourg ?

have a nice day

	16-09-2002 19:01									#41
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Yes, why would they attack us now as we have the trade deals going on.

In my mind the Romans pose no threat to us until the trade deal is over. If we manage to renew it, well then we have another 20 turns to relax.

However we should do something about the fact that Cherbourg has no defenders. We need at least the spear being built there. But others will be needed in the future. I'd say build the spear, then possibly a temple, worker, spear(pike)...

	16-09-2002 19:07									#42
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , the AI has the tendency to go for poor or undefended cities , ...... actually it would be good to build a new city in the neigborhood , .... Aro can you come up with a new area view of cherbourg ? have a nice day

You will find it in the first page of this same thread, it's the post #21

	16-09-2002 19:12									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Torkkeli Yes, why would they attack us now as we have the trade deals going on. In my mind the Romans pose no threat to us until the trade deal is over. If we manage to renew it, well then we have another 20 turns to relax. However we should do something about the fact that Cherbourg has no defenders. We need at least the spear being built there. But others will be needed in the future. I'd say build the spear, then possibly a temple, worker, spear(pike)...

Aggie has a proposal about this. But in a long way could be very difficult maintain Cherbourg, it's too far from our capital. The Aggie's plan includes pop up a settler ( or a worker) after buy the spear, then abandon the city, and look for a closest place.

	16-09-2002 19:22									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Aggie has a proposal about this. But in a long way could be very difficult maintain Cherbourg, it's too far from our capital. The Aggie's plan includes pop up a settler ( or a worker) after buy the spear, then abandon the city, and look for a closest place.

Oh yes.

Just looked at the map and discovered that 5 out of 9 tiles are desert. Not very good land to grow on. So I must agree with Aggie's plan to disband the city and bring it closer.

But where?

Maybe we could ship the settler and the spear to UberIsle.


However I think that the AI has built the city there with a purpose. So if the city is still there when we discover gunpowder, we might be sitting on Salpeter.... And that is always better than let the others get it.

	16-09-2002 19:47									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Aro You will find it in the first page of this same thread, it's the post #21

hi ,

saw it before , maybe something of an overall view and a bigger close up , .....

maybe we should build a new city there abouts , .....

have a nice day

	16-09-2002 19:52									#46
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Panag,
I'm working on a more complete tactical map, I hope I can post it today (tonight, probably. I have some RL issues to deal... ).

	16-09-2002 19:56									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Panag, I'm working on a more complete tactical map, I hope I can post it today (tonight, probably. I have some RL issues to deal... ).

hi ,

, okay

have a nice day

	16-09-2002 21:02									#48
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Give it to Greece, that way Rome and Greece can fight, fortify and die in the battleground currently know as "what's left of France". Thus adding more confusion and hindrence to little Joan.

Muwha ha ha aha ha

	16-09-2002 22:07									#49
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If we don't give it away it is useless in the current enviroment(and I don't think we could keep it out of enemy hands until gunpowder). So we should build settler THIS turn. Next turn the settlers goes e toward to coast and we send out galley to pick him up. This will take 5/6 turns total. Then the settler comes home to settle elsewhere or maybe on uber island. Also another think to keep in mind if trades make people happy we should consider trading wines(when they become available a few turns), to keep say russia happy. Yes a settler is vulnerable, but we can manuever him out of harms way and lets face it, there are also french workers in that area if rome wants a fight. Who do you think rome wants to pick a fight with, us or france. I think with some moving we could quickly get our setter in a safe place, the key is the next few turns, once we get e of the intracontinental superhighway we are safe. Though in the future building or taking(more likely) a city in the middle of this choke point could be very useful, if only for recon purposes.
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 16-09-2002 at 22:15

	16-09-2002 22:30									#50
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Maybe there should be a runoff between keep, give to Greece, and Give to Germany, those seem to be the three dominant poll choices and debate issues.

	16-09-2002 23:46									#51
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Orders are going up now for tomorrow, so I'm afraid there may not be time for a repoll...

Also, it's really Togas' decision (IIRC). It's basically even between keeping it and giving it away, and within giving it away very close between Greece and Germany. I think he'll decide, though it's a hard choice, and I'm very happy that he's back to make it .

-- adaMada

	17-09-2002 00:14									#52
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Adamada, I'm not sure this is a FAM decision just like the GL decision isn't mine. Yes trades are his area, however a city isn't a commodity. This decison should be made by either poll or if poll can't decide the MIE,FAM,and Pres with input from other ministers. Still I am glad it isn't my decison too(and we all know what that would be) and adamada you did a wonderful job.
Aggie

	17-09-2002 00:18									#53
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Really? I always assumed that it would fall under the FAM, just because it's a trade.

If you need more than just one person to make the decision, then someone should probably PM the relevent people fast -- I was kind of assuming Togas would decide when he finalized his orders, but if others are needed... I would have posted an 'official' repoll a few days ago to solve the problem, but I didn't realize until now... As it is, this poll is unofficial and close, so I don't think this one will work.

Does FAM, MOE, and Prez sound like the right people to involve? How about City Planner or IE Minister? Are their intrests represented by the MoE?

Thanks Aggie... you've done a great job as well, considering that you only signed up to be a Deputy , and I'm glad we had another qualified SMC to take over after Uber left.

-- adaMada

	17-09-2002 00:28									#54
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Thank you adamada, though most of my success has been MWIA luck and the AI's absolute stupidity. Actually I am not sure who it would fall under(lets face it when we made the col we didn't plan on giving up cities) so this is a real question mark. Unfortuanely I have to go soon but could you PM togas and see if he agrees with this interpritation or not and if he does then he can Pm and they can have a PM party to decide.
Aggie

	17-09-2002 00:38									#55
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Just PMmed Togas about it.

-- adaMada

	17-09-2002 03:30									#56
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Good, that will clear things up.
Aggie

	17-09-2002 05:14									#57
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This is an unofficial poll, so it is in no way binding on anyone, first of all.

I have to say that this certainly seems like a FM job if it falls to any minister- the implications are manily about foreign affair, not military matters. I would say though, that giving up cities sounds like a major decision, which ois either the Prez' or must be officially voted on- we are talking about surrendering a city after all, no matter how puny the city.

	17-09-2002 06:28									#58
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I voted Greece.

Why? The way I see it is that it does not matter who gains from it. The second it is captured, it will be razed. If, however unlikely, it survives, it can be ours again in the future. Id rather see some of the big civs duke it out. They can really hurt each other while we build in the background. It does mean that we will have a bigger bully to take care of later on, but the benefit is that war is on our terms.

Mss

	17-09-2002 06:38									#59
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Hopefully all the ministers and president can just agree on it, then it doesn't really matter whose job it is.

If we really have to have another poll to verify though, and people are sure those legions are going to attack, then it is worth delaying the turn chat to do it. Im not 100% convinced those legions will attack immediately though. One set is escorting a settler, the other looks like it has already halfway passed the city and not attacked, or is it going back the other way?

	17-09-2002 07:06									#60
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I change my vote to Greece. I think the empty city is too tempting a target and whoever we give it to should get a free defender.

Greece and Rome are spoiling to fight each other so lets give them a reason.