16-09-2002 02:58									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie He's on the road between uber and geo. Are you using save 170ADend. Scared me for a second there. Aggie

I downloaded the one from the report thread and was worried the game had been saved BEFORE the GL.

	16-09-2002 03:36									#32
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We can't rename units that produced a GL in 1.21, only in 1.29. Bummer.

	16-09-2002 04:01									#33
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Army!

	16-09-2002 04:15									#34
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If you build the Art of War on Uber, you will gain its benefits only on Uber and nowhere else.

Also, we need to use him ASAP, whether it is for an Army or for something else. Since we can't get anymore GL's until he is used. We need to use him immediately, this turn coming up before we commit any combat actions.

	16-09-2002 04:24									#35
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quote: Originally posted by kring If you build the Art of War on Uber, you will gain its benefits only on Uber and nowhere else. Also, we need to use him ASAP, whether it is for an Army or for something else. Since we can't get anymore GL's until he is used. We need to use him immediately, this turn coming up before we commit any combat actions.

Since when do Sun Tzu only work in the city its built in? Ubergorsk will allow it to work all over the main continent.

Anyway, first thing next turn I propose he march into Ubergorsk and build Sun Tzu. No chance of missing out on another GL as he'll be gone before any more battles.

	16-09-2002 04:32									#36
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quote: Originally posted by kring If you build the Art of War on Uber, you will gain its benefits only on Uber and nowhere else.

Ghengis meant Uber as in Ubergorsk, not Uber Isle.

	16-09-2002 04:45									#37
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In the previous discussion I stated that I supported building an army.

My opinion has changed. Sun Tzu: The Art of War will do more good. Gepap also makes a great point when he says:

quote: We know the benefits of getting the Art of War, and we also know the dangers of a major civ. getting it, which would make thier armies far more formidable, as Shiber has stated. We don't know if we ever will get another GL because it is random. We might get a dozen without the heroic epic, 3 with, 0 without- we just can't know: we should not make policy based on the probabiliuty of winning the GL lottery, that is gambling. We should make policy based on what we know. GL's aren't a solution. I would like to be able to build an economy capable of bulding great wonders without GL help. I would like even to build a force and empire so great that all the wonders of the world won't defeat us. Getting the Art of War, forever giving our armies a boost and denying the advantage of professionalism to the enemies armies will help us in that respect.

	16-09-2002 04:47									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber We can't rename units that produced a GL in 1.21, only in 1.29. Bummer.

i remember that now

damn, thats too bad

	16-09-2002 05:14									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie One thing to say though, it only produces barrack on its continent I thought. Aggie

True, but what a continent!! (Abananaba, I mean)

I was leaning toward the army/heroic epic route, but I find GF's reasoning pretty compelling.

Except that if it were possible to buy Theology, I'd definitely prefer the Sistine Chapel, which IMO is one of the most powerful wonders in the game.

	16-09-2002 07:27									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Robber Baron Except that if it were possible to buy Theology, I'd definitely prefer the Sistine Chapel, which IMO is one of the most powerful wonders in the game.

I agree, but I think building Sun Tzu next turn will give us a shot at both as long as we keep pressing the war with Persia.

I suggest after building Sun Tzu, start building our war units in Ubergorsk, Napoleton, Geofront, Seeberg, and Loveshack.

Start civilizing the cities of Termina, Apolyton, Tassagrad, BHQ, Timeline, and Gaia but first build a settler from Apolyton or Tassagrad to fill the gap between Tass and Timline.

Settle Uber Isle and then civilize it.

This way parts of our civ will be moving forward to build commerce and science while only part continues the war on Persia.

	16-09-2002 12:16									#41
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Sun Tzu will enable us to defend new cities instantly instead of having to garrisoning multiple units for long periods of time.

	16-09-2002 13:31									#42
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OK. If you are bound and determined to build a Wonder, at least save the GL and build Sistine, please.

Sun Tzu's is the least useful for the long term. Barracks cost 1 gpt upkeep.

Colosseum's cost 2gpt and make 2 people content.

A cathedral costs 2gpt and makes 3 people content. That is doubled to 6 with Sistine. We build a catherdral, we don't need a colosseum for a long while; with some luxuries and marketplaces, after hospitals.

Also, Sun Tzu's is 2 culture per turn. Sistine is 6. Culture effects whether our oppo is favourable to us or not.

	16-09-2002 13:34									#43
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I agree, but I think building Sun Tzu next turn will give us a shot at both as long as we keep pressing the war with Persia.

You are most likely incorrect. Civ3 general and strategy are littered with examples of people who only got one GL in the entire game. Of course, most of them built a wonder and did not build the army to increase the chances of getting more.

	16-09-2002 13:39									#44
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Sun Tzu's is fine. So is the Sistine. But "preserving" a leader imho isn't the right way.

	16-09-2002 14:45									#45
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We have up until the next battle that our elite units are involved in to either get Theology and Sistines or build Sun Tzus.

	16-09-2002 17:33									#46
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hi ,

, some difficult choices here , .....

building sun tzu on uber has its pros and cons , .....

we should start with it somewhere , we can always switch to an other wonder if those species build it first , ....

if we would get an army we can get more GLs , .... and from a tactical point of view it would be more intresting , .....

have a nice day

	16-09-2002 17:49									#47
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I am torn....
Usually I go first for an army....
But sun tzu is tempting....
So is holding on to him and getting leos....

I shall follow the will of the people in this one... looks like sun tzu is winning, thus I shall set up next orders to account for this.

	17-09-2002 10:00									#48
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I think that the question should rather be to build a wonder of some sort or an army. Some people including me don't want to neglect the benefits of Sistine Chapel yet. BTW, does anyone know if anyone is building either wonder?

	17-09-2002 11:34									#49
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Virtually every civ that can is building Sun Tzu's. And that will switch to Sistines if we use GL.

	17-09-2002 11:55									#50
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Yes, but some Civs are =also= building the Chapel.

When we build Sun Tzu, I don't think they can switch to another wonder, because of this (within a Civ, only one city can work on a particular wonder at a time).
They will loose all accumulated production in the cities that were building Sun Tzu.

	17-09-2002 15:25									#51
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I don't think so. They can switch to another building without losing shields because they haven't been building it for so long (or because in the worst case they can switch to Colosseum).
However we'd still get to see their shocked faces when we build Sun Tzu's.

Last edited by Shiber on 17-09-2002 at 15:34

	17-09-2002 15:58									#52
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hi ,

we can always start to build a wonder , and lets hope that we can build an other one by the time they have it , this way we can switch easy , .... so we should focus our research on a tech that gives us a wonder , .....

have a nice day

Last edited by panag on 17-09-2002 at 16:38

	17-09-2002 16:16									#53
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , we can always strt to build a wonder , and lets hope that we can build an other one by the time they have it , this way we can switch easy , .... so we should focus our research on a tech that gives us a wonder , ..... have a nice day

You're missing the point all those shields would be wasted.

We cannot "build" a great wonder as the AI civs have too many advantages over us. We have to use a GL if we want one and starting on one now defeats the purpose of using a GL.

	17-09-2002 16:34									#54
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A huge advantage in fact. They get a 25% discount on the price of any building in shields, and I think this applies to wonders as well.

	17-09-2002 16:40									#55
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb You're missing the point all those shields would be wasted. We cannot "build" a great wonder as the AI civs have too many advantages over us. We have to use a GL if we want one and starting on one now defeats the purpose of using a GL.

hi ,

nono , the point is to switch , .....

we start now with a wonder , if they have it , and we have the tech to switch to an other wonder we should be safe , that is what meant , .....

have a nice day

	17-09-2002 17:44									#56
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Whatever its used for the GL has to be used NOW, we cannot use ANY elite unit in combat, attack or defense until the GL is gone.

Period.

The fact that people sit on GLs is EXACTLY why they only generate one.

	17-09-2002 19:59									#57
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The only time I sit on a great leaders is if a war is basically over and no more elites will fight and a tech is almost mine that will give a wonder I really really want. If we could buy theology from someone, it would almost be worth it since we would be buying the wonder. Yes I prefer it to sun Tsu's but I don't think we will be buying theology soon. but thta could change, let me ask this how much gold is sistine worth to us, because by buying theology we are buying it(and yes lets figure this out BEFORE the chat).
Aggie

	17-09-2002 20:48									#58
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My observation, first thing next turn see if there's any way to acquire Theology. If we can acquire it (Persia doesn't count, we aren't negotiating with them) then get it and build the Sistine Chapel. If not, build Sun Tzu, this way we are guaranteed a wonder, and if we're lucky we'll get another GL in time to build the Sistine.

	18-09-2002 02:58									#59
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Whatever its used for the GL has to be used NOW, we cannot use ANY elite unit in combat, attack or defense until the GL is gone. Period. The fact that people sit on GLs is EXACTLY why they only generate one.

hi ,

okay here is the solution ;

get the the chapel , we take the tech from that evil species , or buy it , whatever , and build the chapel on Uber Isle or our capital , ....

meaning with build , we can use the GL , yes or no is an other Q

the best to do actually is to build an army , .....

have a nice day

	18-09-2002 06:20									#60
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What do we do with our next GL?