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red_jon is offline red_jon
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Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:22
  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:23 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
chegitz guevara... and what about all the votes in Chicago that were stolen for Gore... If you sent the feds into Chicago, I'm sure they would find at least 200,000 fradulant votes for Gore... It's the nature of the beast. Chicago handed Kennedy the Presidency in a similar fashion many years ago


Ummm, this isn't really helping the 'America is a fair democracy' argument Ming

Odin is offline Odin
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Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:28
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I hate the electoral collage because it gives a small advantage to sparsely populated states, and they tend to vote repubican, and the urbanites are screwed. time to get rid of it.

axi is offline axi
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:29
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quote:
Coeur d'Alene, ID


Did the French actually found the place, or was it named like that for another reason? Tell us the story, I bet it's a nice one.

As for the thread topic: you know you could post your paragraph in some other USA vs the world thread, you didn't have to make your own.

To all Canucks here: I guess that Canada will not remain a 30 million people continent for long. Nor will Australia, or Siberia or any other sparsely populated region. It will be filled with Mexican, Indian, Chinese and African colonists before the end of the century. Global warming will definitely help on this. Of course this means that your country will surpass the old and depleted USA in might one day, if it survives the invasion of course...

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
time: 21:22
  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:32
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Chegitz, you know how much of a Bush fan I am.

But let's face facts, bro, Gore sucked. He was a two-term incumbent VP, with the best campaign fund a Dem frontrunner has ever had and the closest funding ratio a Dem has had to a Republican in a presidential election.

Gore got nailed flat on environmental hypocrisy (the EPA cites on his property), Gore had the campaign strategy of the average rutabaga, and he was afraid of Clinton helping out because he was afraid of all the attention Clinton's **** would get. Never mind that Clinton's **** has more personality.

Gore was a nominal southerner who couldn't even carry the south, including his home state, where Daddy had owned and operated the Democratic party machinery for decades, just like my "Uncle Fred" (my great-uncle Fred Vinson) did in Kentucky at the same time. Florida was a write-off state from the beginning, and Gore's major campaign strategy never assumed it was a key state until very late in the game.

Both parties play the same voting and registration games, in different ways, all over the US. If Gore and his campaign had remotely had their **** together, the election never would have come down to a few crackers and their voting (or vote-busting) abilities.

Ming is offline Ming
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:35 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Hey MtG... we should probably close down one of the two threads... this one, or the All non americans are morons thread... What do you think

They both have "some" serious" discussions going on, but do we really need two threads like these

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
time: 07:22
  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:35
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Was it Gore who said he 'invented' the internet? I'm not sure, but I thought it was hilarious.
I wish Colin Powell would go for presidency..I think he's a cool guy.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
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Aug 2005
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:41 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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Re: Like it or not Euros, we're the best country in the world Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This post has been deleted in order to prevent further flag waving.

Remember, were all in this world together. Walk with planet!

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:41
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quote:
Originally posted by axi


Did the French actually found the place, or was it named like that for another reason? Tell us the story, I bet it's a nice one.


The first whiteys to do more than just pass through that area were French fur trappers in the very early 19th century.

The French found themselves dealing with extremely hostile natives. Later, pressure from the English (Hudson's Bay Company) traders and trappers based out of what is now Oregon and Washington, and pressure from American fur trappers (first independents in the great ol' mountain man days, later company trappers under John Jacob Astor's American Fur Company), caused the French to drop out of the fur business in the early 1820's, and they were all but gone by 1830 or so, except for few who settled or joined in with the Americans.

There are a fairly large number of geographical features in that part of the US that were first named by French trappers.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Hey MtG... we should probably close down one of the two threads... this one, or the All non americans are morons thread... What do you think

They both have "some" serious" discussions going on, but do we really need two threads like these




How about we compromise, and you take one, while I take the other.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Was it Gore who said he 'invented' the internet? I'm not sure, but I thought it was hilarious.


Nope, it's one of those enduring misquotes. He took credit (at least partly justifiable) for some of the enabling legislation that allowed the internet to happen.

Capt Dizle is offline Capt Dizle
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
I hate the electoral collage because it gives a small advantage to sparsely populated states, and they tend to vote repubican, and the urbanites are screwed. time to get rid of it.


That is a stupid statement. No offense meant.

Vlad Antlerkov is offline Vlad Antlerkov
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Mar 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
chegitz guevara... and what about all the votes in Chicago that were stolen for Gore... If you sent the feds into Chicago, I'm sure they would find at least 200,000 fradulant votes for Gore... It's the nature of the beast. Chicago handed Kennedy the Presidency in a similar fashion many years ago


Kennedy had 303 electoral votes in 1960. Nixon had 219. Then, as now, you needed 270 EC votes to win the presidency.

Illinois had 27 EC votes in 1960. If Nixon won Illinois, Kennedy would still have won, 276-246.

Vlad Antlerkov is offline Vlad Antlerkov
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 03:58 Visit Vlad Antlerkov's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
I hate the electoral collage because it gives a small advantage to sparsely populated states, and they tend to vote repubican, and the urbanites are screwed. time to get rid of it.


Eliminating it causes another problem-- the urban vote swamps the rural vote, making the rural states irrelevant. (IIRC, the Boston metro area has more people than the rest of New England.)

IMHO, I'd suggest that each state have its EC votes cut by 1.

red_jon is offline red_jon
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 04:00 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov


Eliminating it causes another problem-- the urban vote swamps the rural vote, making the rural states irrelevant.


Which is bad because?

Ming is offline Ming
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 04:07 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov


Kennedy had 303 electoral votes in 1960. Nixon had 219. Then, as now, you needed 270 EC votes to win the presidency.

Illinois had 27 EC votes in 1960. If Nixon won Illinois, Kennedy would still have won, 276-246.



Similar events occured in other Democratic Machine Dominated Big Cities... One state can only do so much

Vlad Antlerkov is offline Vlad Antlerkov
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Meh. Still, I've heard that statement about Daley's machine handing the White House to Kennedy too much to not correct it (and not just from Republicans, either).

And I don't really think much of JFK, either.

leftover_crack is offline leftover_crack
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 05:02
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"Dan Servern, while Bush is legally the President of the US, he was not elected legally. He was elected through massive voter disenfranchisement and vote fraud in the state of Florida. The 3,000 or so confused people in West Palm Beach, certainly contributed to it but so did illegally forcing counties to accept invalid absentee ballots and illegally keeping as many as 100,000 ex-felons from voting. The Bush government here broke the law to make sure that his brother won the election.
"


Not to stick up for that redneck or anything. But some 200,000 people were turned away from the republican dominated Panhandle. Why did this happen you ask? The Election/State was called an hour before there people usually go out to vote. Alot of people were angry. They were going to the polling booths listening to there radio's AND...suddenly "We interupt this broadcast to bring you the latest NEWS. GORE has just won florida".

Lets be fair now folks.

leftover_crack is offline leftover_crack
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 05:04
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FYI the panhandle area of florida has a HUGE amount of republicans and is in a different time zone. Alot of people were incredibly angry and the media kind of blew them off, instead focusing on the idiots who couldnt figure out how to punch a key hole in.

JCG is offline JCG
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 07:37
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Technically, the U.S. is just the most powerful, not really the "best" country.

Besides, "best" is a highly subjective term...

johncmcleod is offline johncmcleod
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Coeur d'Alene, ID, USA
Jan 2002
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 08:25 Visit johncmcleod's homepage!
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As I said in the starter, Americans are no better than Euros, Chinese, or any other race. We're all the same. I'm just talking about the country though. Sweden is a democracy, yes. But when we became independent and became a democracy, they pretty much got it from us.

And whoever said CdA is the capital of white supremacy, never say that to someone that lives there. I know it wasn't meant as an insult, but it sure would insult anyone from that town. The Aryans have made three or four marches about 6 blocks from my house. And guess what? They got egged (I condemn their actions, but it shows what people think of them). Everytime there's one of those marches, do you know how many peace rallies were going on? Like one in every city within 50 miles. We're not supremacists, there's just about 20 people affiliated with Butler who live near us and give us all a bad name. It's very sad, because there are hardly any African-Americans where I live because they're scared to come here.

I'm not a little kid, also. In two and three fourths of a year I'll become legally an adult. Yes, though I'm about the average hight for a 15 year old, I do look like I'm 11, but that doesn't make me dumber than you guys. I'm taking honors Algebra 2 in my freshmen year.

Mainly what I'm saying is the US is the most powerful and influential country in the world now. I'm saying it mostly because someone in a thread wrote that the US wasn't the best country in the world or even the second best. Yes, I know best is a subjective term, but I just couldn't think of how else to sum it up in one word. And chill out, this thread isn't that big of a deal. I think some people are getting a little concerned.

About the story of the name of CdA. We learned and relearned it in fourth grade 20 times, but I kind of forgot it. Anyway, some French traders went up to what is now CdA. They ripped off a bunch of the indians. The indians said, "They have the heart of an awl (for those of you that don't know, an awl is a sharp tipped tool), and the French translated it, and they called the tribe of indians the Coeur d'Alene indians. I'm not sure if the town was named after the indians or just for that story, though.

Roland is offline Roland
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May 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 12:04
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"Our constitution has been going strong for 226 years. The only other major democracies before us was Greece and Rome."

Amazing how you can put so many historical errors into two short sentences.

Dom Pedro II is offline Dom Pedro II
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Nov 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 12:08
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Yeah, first of all, the Constitution has only been "going strong" for 215 years... You're counting from 1776, but the Constitution was written in 1787. And whether it has been going strong or not is largely a matter of opinion. I personally think its near the point of "scrap of paper" as far as our politicians are concerned.

And England, the Netherlands, and not to mention many of the native tribes Americans so diligently exterminated also had democratic governments before the arrival of the United States.

Clear Skies is offline Clear Skies
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quote:
Originally posted by johncmcleod
As I said in the starter, Americans are no better than Euros, Chinese, or any other race. We're all the same. I'm just talking about the country though. Sweden is a democracy, yes. But when we became independent and became a democracy, they pretty much got it from us.


Are we giving out prizes for Most Unresearched Opinion?

Swedish History:

From http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq735.html

1718-72 the so called Age of Freedom
Political power shifts from the king to the Estates. (With the new constitution the incorporation of Scania and other conquered provinces is completed.) A two-party system develops and Arvid Horn, a Finnish noble man and one of King Karl XII's best militaries and administrators, became the most well-known Prime Minister, totally outshining the King Fredrik I who actually came on the throne as the consort of the abdicated queen.
During the period 1720-1738 Arvid Horn pilots Sweden between Russian and French conflicts, but resigns finally accused for weakness and exaggerated fear for wars. His party gets the nickname the "Nightcaps" opposed by the pride "Hats."

Therefore I conclude....Swedish democracy was in place before America's! Democratic elections were taking place years before the Declaration of Independence.
So retract that statement now.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 16:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov
Eliminating it causes another problem-- the urban vote swamps the rural vote, making the rural states irrelevant. (IIRC, the Boston metro area has more people than the rest of New England.)

IMHO, I'd suggest that each state have its EC votes cut by 1.


If you don't abolish it though, it means some people are more equal than others, which flies in the face of democracy.

ZoboZeWarrior is offline ZoboZeWarrior
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 16:41
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USA the best country ?







Good for you !

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 16:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Yeah, first of all, the Constitution has only been "going strong" for 215 years... You're counting from 1776, but the Constitution was written in 1787. And whether it has been going strong or not is largely a matter of opinion. I personally think its near the point of "scrap of paper" as far as our politicians are concerned.

And England, the Netherlands, and not to mention many of the native tribes Americans so diligently exterminated also had democratic governments before the arrival of the United States.


As much as I like to stick up for my own country, England was not a democratic country until the late 19th centruy and even then there were some restrictions on who could vote. We had a constitutional monarchy at the time of the American revolution, but those who could vote for members of parliament were very limited. IIRC around 15-20%(men only)

Roland is offline Roland
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May 1999
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 17:03
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US in 1789 had no voting rights for slaves, women, native americans, and in several if not most states still a census (real estate ownership, tax payment etc) requirement.

The Pioneer is offline The Pioneer
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 17:18
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Isn't Switzerland the longset living democracy?

No insult here but the Constitution, although a great great revolutionary document it left a big chunk of the population out in its interpretetion, namely the blacks. That lead to the Civil War which took around half a million lifes IIRC. As for the States being the greatest country , I say when you grow up a bit and live in three or four countries and visit a few more you will realize that there is no perfect country.


So long...

Roland is offline Roland
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  Old Post 16-09-2002 17:25
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Switzerland was a very lose confederation until 1848 (not counting the Helvetian republic and the mediation act). As for the Cantons, most were aristocratic city republics that ruled the surrounding areas until the 1830s/40s. Only the initial pesant republics could count as democratic, Schwyz, Waldstätte, Uri, and I think Zug and Glarus.

Adalbertus is offline Adalbertus
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quote:
Only the initial pesant republics could count as democratic, Schwyz, Waldstätte, Uri, and I think Zug and Glarus.

IIRC, they had (or even have) a "perfect" direct and equal democracy ... for men only. While all men had equal rights, women weren't allowed to vote (It changed only in the 20th century (I think in the seventies). But the direct democracy was only feasible because the communities were rather small, I think these states had never more than 10000 inhabitants each pre-19th century.

 
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