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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:22
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code:
House Ghengis Land Holdings in the Province of Mingapulco
Turn #: 007
Holdings:
House Ghengis:
"Apolyfield" - 004 Apolyton NW (grass),
"Jungleister" - 015 Termina NE3 (jungle),
"Ghengis Mountain" - 022 Tassagrad NW (jungle)
Leased from adaMada:
005 Apolyton NW10 (mined grass rd)
Leased from civman2000:
008 Apolyton NE1 (mined grass rd)
Leased from UnOrthOdOx:
013 Termina NE1 (jungle),
014 Termina NE2 (jungle)
Leased from rendelnep:
011 Termina E (mined grass rd)
Stockpile(s):
GhengisFarb Estate: 0 food, 4 shields, 15 commerce
adaMada Estate:.....0 food, 2 shields, 0 commerce
civman2000 Estate:.0 food, 0 shields, 0 commerce
rendelnep Estate:.....0 food, 0 shields, 0 commerce
UnOrthOdOX Estate...0 food, 0 shields, 0 commerce
TOTAL STOCKPILE..0 food, 6 shields, 15 commerce
Cash: $1424
Debt: -$1000 (10% interest, 9 turns remaining on grace period)
Buildings:
STOREHOUSE ON ESTATE OF GHENGISFARB
TAVERN IN TASSAGRAD
TAVERN IN APOLYTON
TAVERN IN BHQ
SHOPPE IN TASSAGRAD
SHOPPE IN APOLYTON
SHOPPE IN BHQ
Vassals:
GhengisFarb Estate: 3 (1 local, 2 French)
adaMada Estate:..... 1 (local)
civman2000 Estate:.1 (local)
rendelnep Estate:.....1 (local)
UnOrthOdOX Estate...5 (1 local, 4 Persian)
TOTAL VASSALS: 11 (5 local, 2 French, 4 Persian)
Administered by: GhengisFarb, First Ghengis of House Ghengis
Last turn's completed trades:
GhengisFarb hired 1 labor in Apolyton @ $67
GhengisFarb hired 1 labor in BHQ @ $20
GhengisFarb hired 1 labor in Tassagrad @ $20
Kloreep hired 1 vassal from GhengisFarb @ $10
notyoueither hired 1 vassal from GhengisFarb @ $10
GhengisFarb bought 3 food from jdd2007 @ $120
GhengisFarb bought 1 food from Jonny @ $120
GhengisFarb bought 2 food from notyoueither @ $120
GhengisFarb sold 16 food @ $110 (Through Taverns)
.....(Tavern bonus 16 X $55 (50% of $110))
GhengisFarb paid off $1020 of rendelnep's debt
FINISHED SHOPPE IN APOLYTON
FINISHED SHOPPE IN BHQ
FINISHED SHOPPE IN TASSAGRAD
..........net Cash Flow =$215 (Cash=$1852, Debt=$1000)
Production this turn: 11 food, 4 shields, 4 commerce
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Proposed Deals:
Excess Vassals eat 3 food
Buy 1 food from Jonny at D/S + $10
Buy 4 food from =OttomusCeasar= at D/S + $10
Buy 2 food from Nimitz at D/S + $10
Build Lumber Mill on UnOrthOdOx's (jungle, river) tile
Use 5 vassals of UnOrthOdOx
Build Brewery on GhengisFarb's "Jungleister" - 015 Termina NE3 (jungle),
use 3 vassals of GhengisFarb
use vassal of adaMada
use vassal of civman2000
Offer vassal of rendelnep up for hire (use for this turn) to highest bidder
Sell 15 food @ minimum price of $1 through Taverns
Sell 15 commerce @ minimum price of $1 through Shoppes
Pay adaMada $110 rent
(Note: will apply adaMada's cash at end of turn towards his debt)
Pay civman2000 $175 rent
(Note: will apply $300 of civman2000's cash towards his debt)
Pay rendelnep $175 rent
Pay UnOrthOdOx $100 rent
(Note: will apply UnOrthOdOx's cash at end of turn towards his debt)
Pay off $1000 of my debt
Note to use the "code" format simply type the four letters, "code" in brackets and use the "/" to close them. Quote this post to see how they were typed.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 20-09-2002 at 02:50
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=OttomusCeasar=
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What? You want to visit?
Sep 2002
time: 05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Kman, shiek, Frances, and skywalker all quit so there isn't as much product competing to drive down prices now. |
Are their lands going to be available for auction too, or are they going to be off limits?
Offer $10 for rendelnep's vassal for this turn.
Can we hire labor from the cities to use on our estates?
Last edited by =OttomusCeasar= on 19-09-2002 at 00:53
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Kman, shiek, Frances, and skywalker all quit so there isn't as much product competing to drive down prices now.
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quote:
Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=
Are their lands going to be available for auction too, or are they going to be off limits? |
They did post that they were giving up their land, I would support giving Frances' tile to Captain as per his suggestion and holding all money those players generated in an account for them should they come back in the Royal Treasury and then returning their tiles to the auction pool.
What does everyone else think?
Let me know and I can make the new map of tiles and prices tonight.
quote:
Can we hire labor from the cities to use on our estates? |
Yes put you must hire the labor from a city which has the tile to be worked in its city radius.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 19-09-2002 at 04:04
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
I fully understand as I had the same plans, and it caught me by suprise also. How about if each player is allowed to buy 1 additional tile in the sessions only? There aren't many players that have the cash to buy anything more than jungle and after turn 10 the market will expand with a LOT more tiles available. |
Didn't you propose the changes? 
quote:
I don't think it would have that great of an effect (and it would be a lot more work for me). Honestly, you, Kloreep, and I are in the best position for a lowering of the base Rate as we own businesses. It's going to hurt the other players a lot more.
I'm also giving notice that I plan to build a racetrack on my jungle tile and WILL NOT own any horses so that I will be eligible to be the commisioner if anyone wishes to buy horses for fuure racing. |
I agree that three of us are in better position to weather the storm of reduced prices. That's why I believe it better to wait and see what happens.
I do not want to impose on you, but if you are already counting unowned lands for supply, how much does it add to count the fallow lands? I admit, I am going on an imperfect knowledge of all that went before. There is too much, too many. I have not reviewed every thead and every post, as may be evidenced by my initial, spastic attempts at playing the game. 
The racetrack idea seems interesting, but I'm not wed to it. It seems to be a permutation which has not been thoroughly examined. Is it true that I am the only one who can sell horses? What point does it serve? I like the general direction of the idea of making things more interesting, but do we want to add comlexity while people are dropping off due to lack of time and interest?
Maybe it would be better to keep things more stable (HARR HARR) for a time and attract more players before we hit the industrial age and really need to elaborate a lot. Just my 0.02 Lytons worth.
re the land situation. It just sucks to be me. 
I will have no cash and can not bid on any of the lands that I have been eyeing. 
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:22
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Several things here.
I started, and played under Captains original rules. I became VP, and let Ghengis rent the land, for a fair price at that time because I was running EVERYTHING at the time, MrWIA was out of commition, then I had RL issues...
Captains original rules stated that once debt was paid, you could purchase MORE LAND, this promoted a choice: make buildings, or save for more land.
quote:
btw, if not all tiles are taken by day 3, that's okay. we'll start anyways, and others can join then as they want. You can bid for up to 3 tiles if the total is less than $1000, or bid any amount for a single tile. After this initial auction, you'll be eligible for another government loan to buy another tile if you're debt free |
The rules also had Buildings and Base rates
Buildings were extremely expensive due to the cost of shields and labor, so those were proposed changed, and the idea of vassals came up. People couldn't build AND pay off their debt, so the Base rates were changed instead of paying off the debt, and building after, or facing interest. These are fine in the fact that they sped up building, and increased the amount to DO and have fun with in a turn. They went too far, however, making some items more than tripple in value, labor about half the cost, and buildings cost less than 1/4 the original shields:
quote:
Silo (10 shields): Allows stockpiling up to 10 food.
Warehouse (10 shields): Allows stockpiling 10 more shields or commerce.
Inn (40 shields): Converts 1 food into cash for 200% of the market price per turn.
Shop (50 shields): Allows you to sell your merchandise for 20% more*. Up to 3 commerce per turn.
Workshop (70 shields): Allows you to sell shields for 20% more*. Up to 3 shields per turn. |
From here, I get totally lost on the changes. I do not know what happened, I only know that I can no longer sell labor that I bought, since city labor is now cheap, and everyone has their own labor free. I know that my ONE commerce sold for over $200 last turn, when Ghengis is only paying me $100 rent (I was only making roughly $120/turn when that deal was made...) I am not even counting whatever profit was made from the sell or use of my Labor.
Based on the original rules, I set out with a plan to pay off my debt ASAP and buy more land. I even chose tiles I could pay off quicker than other people to speed that plan along.
I understand rules have changed, but up till now, those rules have been ones involving HOW the game is played or the specific $ of items. I am even fine with Ghengis getting rich off my land, that was my fault for not paying attention. According to that original rule, however, I should be able to take out a second loan after my debt is paid (I was surprised by that, thought it had to be cash...but that is what I got after looking it up.)
I have not seen where that rule has been changed. I understand that this is a Beta, so things will change, however. Ghengis, don't worry about changing the labor stuff on account of me. People like it this way, fine. We should really only try one change at a time anyway. Changing the base rate should increase the costs of building, labor since the net income will be adjusted. If that is deemed not enough, tweak it more, or change something else.
The buying of new land: Yes, people have sunk alot into building buildings, SOME OF US HAVE NOT BASED ON THE PROMISE OF NEW LAND. I saw it that these were our choices, and chose to push for more land rather than build. If the other rule HAS changed before now, point me towards that discussion. If it did, I should have been building buildings instead of hoarding cash, my mistake. If it did not, I ask if you are interested in the balance of the game, or your own interests on your estate. You all have more earning potential than I do, anyway. Waiting only places an advantage to those of you with the strongest infrastructure. IMO It is the same as in Civ. Build up infrastructure, or expand. You chose build, I chose expand.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:22
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Ghengis.
I am not accusing you of any wrong doing.
You HAVE made SOME cash off my lands for every turn that I have watched. The first one you only made like $5, which is why we changed it from 125 to 100. What has happened since then, I am not sure, but there has been more than 100 each time. I stated I was fine with all deals you have made. But you DID get at least $200 off my lands last turn DESPITE it only producing 1 commerce (the first turn that had happened.) I have no idea if my labor has been used on your stuff or not, nor do I care. You did put them up for sell, I saw. Who bought them, I care not. If you do not make $ this turn, I would of course make it right so that you did. We just should have arranged this as a % to begin with, and all deals should probably be structured that way in the future.
I did make the decision to buy the labor, I have not disputed that. When that decision was made, however, food was going for $40 and labor for $25. It made sense to have 4 $25 items instead of 2 $40. I did not understand how much the D:S would effect things. Fine, my mistake, this is a beta and doesn't matter.
I did not mean to accuse anyone of anything, just to point out problems that I see. Remember I am learning from the original rules, I have not followed all the changes. I was just trying to show how things have changed from when I last was a part of this and am truly sorry if you felt I was accusing you.
Buildings are too cheap now. I think we can all agree that they should not be built in one turn?
I want to know is where the notion that purchasing new land after being debt free is a change to the rules? It was the original plan placed by Captain, when did that change?
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:22
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quote:
Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Captains original rules stated that once debt was paid, you could purchase MORE LAND, this promoted a choice: make buildings, or save for more land. |
I had thought Captain had said we couldn't buy land except at the auctions and the next auction was supposed to take place at the end of the Grace Period but I couldn't find that anywhere so maybe I just assumed something that never actually happened.
NYW, is there a specific tile(s) you are are interested in or just land in particular as I see no way the player can buy all of the land in the next 3 turns. As for accumulation of $ you are in a position to make more money than anyone else but me with the ability to buy goods at D/S and then sell at a 50% bonus so I think you should easily be able to buy land next turn which is the first turn it would be possible.
quote:
Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Buildings were extremely expensive due to the cost of shields and labor, so those were proposed changed, and the idea of vassals came up. People couldn't build AND pay off their debt, so the Base rates were changed instead of paying off the debt, and building after, or facing interest. These are fine in the fact that they sped up building, and increased the amount to DO and have fun with in a turn. They went too far, however, making some items more than tripple in value, labor about half the cost, and buildings cost less than 1/4 the original shields:
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The Base Rate was reduced to LOWER prices, it has never been raised. The higher prices resulted from 3 things:
1)We quit counting our product twice.
2)The population (market nearly doubled) from city growth.
3)We switched to Monarchy which increased the amount of commerce we could sell.
I propose we leave the Grace Period at 15 turns but operate under the original rules that you can buy unowned tiles after you have paid off your debt. And you can borrow money to buy up to 3 new tiles if their total value is less than $1000 or as much as you need on one tile. (nye- if you make $301 this turn you can pay off your debt and be eligible to bid on tiles with a government loan)
We change base rates to $50 for food and $25 for commerce for next turn to see how it effects prices.
We eliminate local vassals, leaving the only source of labor pop from cities and vassals bought from auctions.
How does that sound?
We still need a new Banker as my actions as Banker caused Frances and Epistax to quit and have almost caused notyoueither and UnOrthOdOx to quit.
quote:
Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=
Ghengis let me buy 4 jungle tiles and the rules said up to 3 so I need to return one or be in violation of the rules. Therefore I propose to return BHQ NW Center11 (jungle), $200. And fill that the price of 1 food from last turn should be removed from my cash account.
(Probably makes a lot more work for Ghengis, but I want to be fair.) |
That was my fault, I forgot about the 3 tile rule and I will fix it at the close of this session.
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18-09-2002 22:26
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