13-10-2002 17:23									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hehe deity.......I just read the other game thread as well......you are a sneaky one.

	15-10-2002 20:49									#32
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Quick post then I'm done.

"And I'll try to just avoid all your lawyer BS.....if you want something banned say it before hand. Don't leave it open in interpetetion. Turns are long enough with out waiting for the supreme court to rule on if asking a neighbor to help you declare war on someone else in a no strategic alliance game is illegal."

You were the one who asked about then wanted to make GL illegal during the game. We did. You were the one who asked about then wanted to make tech stealing illegal during the game. We did. So don't give me this crap that nothing should be discussed during the game and everything was cut and dry beforehand.

We discussed during the game the definition of no alliances because it was unclear. That should have raised a red flag to you. Especially since you said it was open to interpretation. MY point is, why not ask? It would have been alot quicker than what we've gone thru.

My home comp is out too. Should be fixed during the week, hopefully.

Berz said that asking another to declare war would be illegal - I have it on king chat. He also said coordinating an attack would be illegal. It would be nice if he stated his opinion here though.

The only saves I have are auto save - I checked them last nite. I have 980ad - the turn after the incident took place. And 900ad - the turn or 2 before dang even landed next to me. So despite what the best solution would be, those are the only 2 choices at hand. (unless someone else has some saves)

I think we should go to 900ad. I'm sure frank is gonna say 980ad. So, as I said earlier, deity and berz are gonna have to decide. I will live with either decision.

	15-10-2002 21:07									#33
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Deity Dude...simply put you a making yourself look bad by saying I personally raised all those issues.

Now once deity, or berz or someone else brought them up, yeah I voted, usually last after someone saying "dang?" or "what say you?" because I usually never raise these issues in game. I don't see any single element in the game as being so unovercomable that I should want to ban it in the middile of a game.

And we can't limit ourselves to the saves on hand. That's just too easy a cop out. Even if you have to reinact your turns as you did before to get into the extra situation (3 turns into the event, you've taken 2 failed attack attempts so you'd have to decline from attacking untill I try to attack once.)

That's all I ask for.

See this is why I don't like on the fly rule changes.

	15-10-2002 22:11									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Frank Johnson And we can't limit ourselves to the saves on hand. That's just too easy a cop out. Even if you have to reinact your turns as you did before to get into the extra situation (3 turns into the event, you've taken 2 failed attack attempts so you'd have to decline from attacking untill I try to attack once.)

I don't know about you or the other players, but I got alot more going on in that game than just that one city. I honestly don't think there is anyway I could accurately reconstruct 80 years (4 turns) all over the board from 2 1/2 weeks ago. Im' sorry but unless soeone else has saves I think we have to live with either 980ad (end of turn of incident) or 900ad (3 turns before incident).

PS. I apologize if you weren't the one who asked for those changes during the game but my point remains the same; it was unclear and should have been dscussed.

	15-10-2002 22:14									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I don't care about other locations events. We can go with whatever latest save we have, so long as taking that extra turn doesn't introduce new troops into the specific battle area and I get my opertunity to attack first.

	15-10-2002 22:23									#36
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

LOL I care about the other locations and events in the game.

	19-10-2002 19:38									#37
	Put an end to popups!

Are we on for tonight? I don't care which save we use.
I guess the reason this never came up in Rah's games is because everyone attacks each other asap and while peace may ensue, peace is never made through the game's diplomatic channels so a state of war always exists.

But in games with ai, when one ai asks you to attack another civ, the game makes you an ally of the ai requesting the attack, so to me, the request to attack another civ qualifies as an alliance and we shouldn't be allowed to do that.

	20-10-2002 04:53									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Fair enough Berz - good logic.

So a rule in this game is that of non-alliance, meaning no co-operation whatsoever (no use of FA to make contact)

Pleae accept that what we did was not deliberately sneaky but from now on we discuss anything that comes up that may be construed as co-operation.

I sugest Dang's auto save before the incident would be the best one to use. I don't care. It's up to Dang and DD to agree.

	21-10-2002 07:57									#39
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Dear Players,

Sorry, when I hadnt heard anything by Friday, I went to the in-law's cottage and spent the weekend fishing with my son.

Thanks Berz for stating your point of view. It might seem unbelieveable, but I would say the same thing if you hadn't agreed with me.

In all the posts and discussions I'm aware of, I've never heard that Dang had the "perfect" save. If he had it why didn't he just say it, instead of suggesting we reconstruct the last 4 turns and waste 3 weeks going over this.

If he can produce that save, the only question now is does Dang get to attack me on the reload (if it allows him to after it didn't the first time) or not.

If he doesn't have the save do we a) take the 980ad save after the incident, b) take the 900ad save 4 turns before the incident and just play it c) take the 900ad save and attempt to reconstruct the 4 turns from 3 weeks ago d) something else.

I leave it up to Deity and Berz to decide (since Dang and I are directly involved) and will live by whatever decision they come up with. In addition, I will post no more on the subject, unless someone posts something I feel to be factually incorrect or a personal insult.

I only ask that the two of you, make what you believe to be the fairest decision and not necessarily the most expedient.

If the issue is decided by thursday nite and posted in this thread, I will play, regardless of the decision. If not, I'm off fishing.

Love,
Deity Dude

	21-10-2002 08:01									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Live and let die.

DD you act like it would be difficult for you to pass up a single turn on one crusader on whatever save you might have so that I would have the first strike to make the situation as it was.

However this continued bashing and whitewash by you has made me lose all taste for this game. Unless you can concede to the very simple idea of NOT using your crusader on your first opertunity to do so, than this game can continue. If not....let it die.

	25-10-2002 12:01									#41
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OK its LATE Thursday nite and no one has posted so I guess I'll have to consider this game dead (at least for this week)

	27-10-2002 04:42									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Hehe deity.......I just read the other game thread as well......you are a sneaky one.

Yes he is isn't he

Don't ever trust him

Put him to death in every game as soon as you can

	27-10-2002 09:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Yes he is isn't he Don't ever trust him Put him to death in every game as soon as you can

Any truly good civ player is sneaky.

Glad to see you joined the club Horsie. I got you out of your predictable rut, shame I have to bury you in it

The Aussie games have now been elevated to a new level (if you put aside the rules disputes).

	27-10-2002 10:13									#44
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The spin doctor

He loses his cap, his spaceship and most of his main cities and somehow he's in control and its all part of the plan

	27-10-2002 10:25									#45
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Yes, I am deity...

	29-10-2002 01:29									#46
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I have noticed a few new Aussie players recently.........I think deity is creating dl's so that he can play with a truly spotless reputation.

	29-10-2002 07:23									#47
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Not me

The only time I ever created a dl was as rebelyell. I did it as a joke in the HOTW2 polling but it sort of back fired. They said I was being sneaky or something.... :angel: