08-10-2002 12:33									#61
	Got spare money?

Yeah, Metropolis was cool. So many things I would've done differently.

Personally, I would've liked a more faithful adaptation of the original, and I feel that having seemingly non-human or unintelligent robots as the workers caused the orginal politics to be lost.

Plus, the surface world should've been much more decadent!

	08-10-2002 17:35									#62
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

--"I really ought to break out of that habit and get something like Cat Girl Nuku Nuku one of these days."

I'd suggest waiting a little on this one. It's about to be released on DVD. No street date yet, but they've started showing off the footage at cons.
I'd also recommend sticking with the OVAs. Those are quite fun, but the TV series didn't do much for me.

--"Hmm, I'd heard of that one before, but had no idea what it was about."

Don't worry, you probably won't have any idea what it's about after you've watched it either

--"For instance, we never get to see the motivations of some of the main villains"

Well, we don't really need motivations for Hamdo, and the rest of them are pretty easy to understand. And Hamdo is supposed to be completely unsympathetic. Raving mad dictators rarely have much reason behind their actions...

--"Anyway, something left a distinctly bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps it was the hard contrast between facist militancy and pacifism?"

That's may be the effect intended. The story is a not really subtle allegory about the evils of war, after all.

--"Oh, and the DVDs were mastered so poorly,"

What equipement are you using? You shouldn't have seen anything worse than some minor cross-coloration. You didn't buy this at the same place as the Eva DVDs, did you?

Where was that, anyway?

Wraith
"I won't let anyone other than me use dangerous moves."
-- Dejiko ("Di Gi Charat")

	08-10-2002 18:19									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I really can't wait till I get a chance to see Princess M now…

	08-10-2002 20:02									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

"Well, we don't really need motivations for Hamdo, and the rest of them are pretty easy to understand."

I disagree. Hamdo and Lady Abelia get so much screen time, it's important to know why they are doing what they are doing. The series is so explicit on most other things, especially its trite political message, why not on this?

Besides, I was a little disappointed that we didn't get any fanservice from Lady Abelia.

"That's may be the effect intended. The story is a not really subtle allegory about the evils of war, after all."

I agree that it's probably the effect intended. But let's call a spade a spade. It's a trite political statement unless we have a good basis of character development.

"What equipement are you using?"

Just about the same equipment used to master the disc. Denon DVD3300 modified for SDI output. SDI input card automatically calibrated via Avia for the correct brightness level.

What probably happened was that they messed up on converting brightness from the Japanese standard to the ROW NTSC brightness standard.

"Where was that, anyway?"

Half.com/Ebay. I will get you the address this evening. Probably just a drop box, of course. cjb.net domain. You get the picture.

Last edited by DanS on 08-10-2002 at 20:08

	08-10-2002 21:04									#65
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

--"I really can't wait till I get a chance to see Princess M now…"

It's a good movie, although I'm not sure what in this thread brought the comment on

--"Hamdo and Lady Abelia get so much screen time,"

Abelia is pretty obviously in love with Hamdo, presumably from before he went bonkers. Her actions are out of loyalty and love, both rather blind.
Hamdo's just a megalomaniac at this point. It might be ineteresting to find out how he gained control of Hellywood, but his motives at this point in the story should be quite obvious.
Hamdo is quite definitely meant to not be a well developed character. His two-dimensionality is part of the point of the story. All of the rest of the major characters seemed well developed to me (well, other than Shu, but the innocent hero motif and all).

--"Denon DVD3300 modified for SDI output."

Interesting set up.

Anyway, I would highly recommend you don't buy from half.com/eBay unless you spend a lot time checking on what to look for. There are far too many bootlegs on eBay, a definite majority (it's harder to find the real stuff than otherwise).
Could you describe the packaging you got it in? Three seperate cases (if so, what type) or a three-in-one (if so, it's a bootleg)?

--"What probably happened was that they messed up on converting brightness from the Japanese standard to the ROW NTSC brightness standard."

That's possible, I suppose, but none of the reviews I've read of it mentioned the problems. My setup definitely isn't that high-end, though, so it's entirely possible I missed it.

Wraith
"Hey, kid. Like I said before, keep your helping hand to yourself."
-- Nabuca ("Now and Then, Here and There")

	08-10-2002 21:33									#66
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

"Abelia is pretty obviously in love with Hamdo, presumably from before he went bonkers. Her actions are out of loyalty and love, both rather blind."

I would like a lot less "presumably". That's what story-telling is all about, no? Not as bad as some French flicks, where there is a chasm between cause and effect which seems to always involve sex, but still...

Abelia was set up as the prime mover of the story (not Hamdo), but this angle wasn't explored at all. I'm disappointed at the squandered potential.

"It might be ineteresting to find out how he gained control of Hellywood, but his motives at this point in the story should be quite obvious."

I don't agree. Hamdo is at this point a shell of a character. After tens of minutes of screen time, his story still hasn't been told. He's been ignored. He just sits there screaming "Lalaru" for minutes on end. This is supposed to be interesting to an adult how, exactly?

"His two-dimensionality is part of the point of the story."

I agree with you. I just disagree with the point of the story.

"All of the rest of the major characters seemed well developed to me"

Lalaru went undeveloped too, except the slightest outlines of a character arc over 10 billion years. Her development could have been really interesting.

Sara was probably the best developed character.

"That's possible, I suppose, but none of the reviews I've read of it mentioned the problems."

I'll double-check my calibrations to be sure.

"Could you describe the packaging you got it in?"

I'll take a pic this evening, if I can.

	08-10-2002 21:45									#67
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm gonna stop *****ing now about it. It still gets a good 6 or 7 rating from me. But it could have been a 9.

	09-10-2002 09:29									#68
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Pics.

Attachment: cover.jpg
This has been downloaded 49 time(s).

	09-10-2002 09:30									#69
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Fold out. Room for 4 discs. 3 were included in paper sleeves.

Attachment: picture-open.jpg
This has been downloaded 50 time(s).

Last edited by DanS on 09-10-2002 at 09:36

	09-10-2002 09:34									#70
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The postage sticker says Sept. 30, '02 from Asheboro, NC 27204.

The label says it's from:

Amanda VonCannon
427 South Main Street Apt. 16
Asheboro, NC 27203-5770

Mystic Visions -- Your One Stop Anime Shop!
info@mysticvisions.cjb.net
http://mysticvisions.cjb.net

Fire away, if you have the ammo.

	09-10-2002 10:42									#71
	Suffering from ads?

Oh, are you talking about Escaflowne, and not Evangelion (which you said in your original post)? In that case I have no idea whether or not its a bootleg.

	09-10-2002 17:10									#72
	Full PM-box? Change here!

--"I would like a lot less "presumably"."

Well, you're going to find a fair bit of it in anime. A lot of things aren't spelled out for you.

--"Hamdo is at this point a shell of a character."

He's a raving lunatic. Literally. You don't usually get a whole lot of deep characterization from that.

--"I just disagree with the point of the story."

Ah, okay then.

--"I'll take a pic this evening, if I can."

I thought you were going to do the pic of the "Now and Then, Here and There" discs, since that's what you posted the image from earlier.

Anyway, this is another bootleg. I really do mean it about eBay, you'll find that upwards of 90% of the anime available there are bootlegs.
The real Escaflowne box looks like this. It's an 8 DVD set, everything in seperate cases. The box is a big top-opening one.

Putting 8 DVDs worth of show on 4 would tend to cause image problems...

--"Fire away, if you have the ammo."

No point in complaining to them. They obviously know what they're doing. I'll send the address along to Bandai though.

What always amazes me about these bootlegs is how easy they are to spot. It wouldn't be difficult to copy the original packaging, but they rarely bother.

Wraith
"Mrrow! It's a job!"
-- Ura ("El Hazard")

	09-10-2002 17:52									#73
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

What??? No thematic discussions on Metropolis vs. Blade Runner??? For shame!

	09-10-2002 18:54									#74
	Got spare money?

"Oh, are you talking about Escaflowne, and not Evangelion (which you said in your original post)? In that case I have no idea whether or not its a bootleg."

ixnay: Oops. Sorry 'bout that.

"I thought you were going to do the pic of the "Now and Then, Here and There" discs, since that's what you posted the image from earlier."



Confusion reigns. See above. The NTHT discs were from Lackluster, so no box. Or would you like a pic of the discs themselves?

"Well, you're going to find a fair bit of it in anime. A lot of things aren't spelled out for you."

I can do "not spelled out" fine--especially in something like action anime. It's just that these characters were purportedly in a character-driven story, but they weren't developed--not even too many good hints. Mysterious is good. Ignored is bad.

"Putting 8 DVDs worth of show on 4 would tend to cause image problems..."

Escaflowne doesn't have a lot of still sequences, but it didn't seem to suffer PQ-wise on only 3 discs. Thanks for the link.

Last edited by DanS on 09-10-2002 at 19:06

	09-10-2002 19:25									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

--"What??? No thematic discussions on Metropolis vs. Blade Runner?"

Heh. Nope. I haven't watched it that often
Still, there are always going to be some sort of similarities with earlier works. Nothing new under the sun and all that. For instance, the robot detective bit might be more similiar to Asimov's stories, with R. Daneel.

--"Confusion reigns."

It's more fun that way.
Lackluster should be selling the legit discs, though. Unless they're buying and selling used DVDs now.

--"Escaflowne doesn't have a lot of still sequences, but it didn't seem to suffer PQ-wise on only 3 discs."

It'll depend on what sort of DVDs used, but I certainly wouldn't trust bootlegs for image quality.

If you're determined to keep buying on eBay, the first thing to watch out for is those flipper cases. They are extremely unpopular, so not many legit releases use them. I can think of a few (Jin-Roh SE, Record of Lodoss War OVA, Metropolis, Irresponsible Captain Tylor OVA), but they're easy to check out.

Wraith
"I see blood...death...destrution..."
-- Hitomi ("Visions of Escaflowne")

	09-10-2002 19:32									#76
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by monolith94 What??? No thematic discussions on Metropolis vs. Blade Runner??? For shame!

To tell the truth, I thought that both movies were "pretty good bordering on mediocre" -- they both get a 6 or 7 out of 10 in my book. I forget why I didn't like Blade Runner all that much (it's been several years since I've seen it), but Metropolis suffered in my mind by (among other things) having the robot chick (whatshername) go through such a rapid 180 between "clueless innocent" and "disillusioned killing machine." It's like the writers had an idea for making the transformation more believable/interesting/whatever, but just didn't have the time to implement it.

	09-10-2002 19:53									#77
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"If you're determined to keep buying on eBay"

I'm not at all. I would like to save a couple of dollars on these box sets, since they're so expensive. But if it harms resale value, then it doesn't make any sense. In my view, I would have been further ahead spending $160 (or whatever) on the boxset, knowing that I could resell for $80 through accepted channels.

	09-10-2002 20:31									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

--"I would like to save a couple of dollars on these box sets, since they're so expensive."

I've been using Bestprices.com for most of my DVD purchases. They do live up to their name. Every few months I go through several online stores and put together an order to compare prices, and even with their shipping rates they win every time. That's my purchasing pattern, of course, so it may not be for you. It's really hard to beat their ADV prices, though.
I will warn you, however, that this is a small online store with razor-thin margins. Their warehousing is outsourced (Ingram), so they don't have any direct control over their stock. They're cheap, and I personally haven't had any problems with their support, but it can take a while to get your order (several weeks depending on how bad the backorder buildup gets, but usually not that bad).

If I'm ordering a DVD that I need (for some reason) in a hurry, I go with Robert's Anime Corner Store. Excellent service and turn-around time (never more than 2 days on in-stock items). Their prices are better than places like Right Stuf (much better than places like Suncoast), but not as good as many of the online retailers like DVD Empire or whatnot.

Right Stuf is worth keeping an eye on. Their regular prices are too high, but they sometimes get good exclusives, and their weekly specials are sometimes great (like Irresponsible Captain Tylor TV box set for $50).

Wraith
"A bath? Whats a bath?"
-- Goku ("Dragonball")

	09-10-2002 22:36									#79
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hmmmmm… and I'd give both movies a ten… I guess I'm just a push over when robots are involved…
I say as I listen to kraftwerk…

	10-10-2002 08:23									#80
	Remove this text

Currently I'm watching Urusei Yatsura, Ranma 1/2, Laputa: The Castle in the Sky (I'm enjoying it more than SnowFire did!).

Other anime that I really liked include: Ghost in the Shell (the film not the series), Perfect Blue, Patlabor 1 and 2, Ninja Scroll, Dragon Pink, and the Elven Bride.

The last two are works of erotica, but don't let that put you off. They're quite witty as well.

	10-10-2002 09:32									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Anybody heard of the titles
Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind (Kaze no Tani no Naushika)
or
His and Her Circumstances (Kare Kano no Jijou)?

	10-10-2002 10:02									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I haven't seen them, but once again, my trusty encyclopedia to the rescue:

quote: Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, dir Hayao Miyazaki A thousand years after a great war, in a world dominated by the pollution-induced Sea of Corruption, Princess Nausicaa grows up in a peaceful valley shielded from the devastation by its prevailing winds from the sea. These keep the deadly spores that spread the Sea of Corrutpion away from its fertile lands - survival by a combination of geographical and meteorological chance. Terrible insect-like creatures roam the Sea of Corruption and the desert lands around. Mightiest of all are the huge crustaceans, the Ohmu. One of these can wipe out most human threats, but in a herd, they are unstoppable. Outside the valley, while smaller communities struggle to survive, factions within the Tolmekian Empire are fighting for supremacy. Princess Kushana of Tolmekia finds one of the superweapons that made the ancient war so terrible, the last God Warrior embryo, and plans to use it to ensure that her people stay on top, even if it means upsetting the fragile balance Nature has struggled to regain after the long-ago war. After his initial success as a director-for-hire on Castle of Cagliostro, Hayao Miyazaki directed this short segment of his own epic 1982 manga, orgininally serialized in Animage magazine. Despite an ending that seems to owe a debt to David Lynch's movie of Dune (1984), Nausicaa draws on a variety of other sources, including The Princess Who Loved Insects and, for its scenes beneath the poisonous-yet-cleansing Sea of Corruption, the 1959 adaptaion of Julse Verne's Journey to the Center of the Earth. It even pastiches Bedknobs and Broomsticks (1971) with an opening montage that ends with Nausicaa in flight where Disney has a witch.

And so on. This entry is huge.

quote: His and Her Circumstances Yukino Miyazawa is the most popular girl at school and a permanent straight-A student, her frantic home life hidden to preserve her seemingly effortless perfection. Her classroom kindgom is invaded by a newcomer, the handsome Soichiro Arima, who competes with her for every prize and accolade. Both are appointed as class reps and forced to work together. Behind icy masks of politeness, the pair fight a private battle of wills and slowly begin to fall in love. Based on a 1997 manga by Masami Tsuda, H&HC effortlessly outlasses its lookalike US cousin Ally McBeal in its dramatic inoovation and use of surreal "cartoon" effects in a contemporary sitcom. In Japan, it owes a debt to earlier comedies of manners such as Goldfish Warning and Reiko Shiratori I Presume, throwing in Greek choruses of cynical siblings, split-screens, and squashed-down cartoon versions of the lead characters. In terms of off-the wall experimentation, it rivals the earlier Fist of the North Star - not just stop-motion and live action, but one episode features a character whose head is a photograph of a Gainax staff member, while another is animated with paper cutouts, until Yukino bursts into real flames. As with director Anno's earlier Evangelion, onsceen captions and subtitles comment on the action and warp the characters' meanings, perfectly caputing the adolescent power sturggles and hypocrisies of the orgininal. A very funny satire about unblikable people who are nevertheless sympathetic characters. Though an English-language version from Right Stuf is forthcoming at time of writing, the authors doubt whether the show's chaotic onscreen action could survive translation intact.

	10-10-2002 17:21									#83
	Remove this text

--"Currently I'm watching Urusei Yatsura, Ranma 1/2, Laputa"

I've seen the first couple episodes of Urusei Yatsura. I need to watch more of it, but that's one of those rather long series. I'll have to start collecting the DVDs soon.

Ranma 1/2 I've got the first two seasons. Pretty good stuff.

Haven't seen Laputa yet, but it is Studio Ghibli, so I will sooner or later.

Ghost in the Shell and Perfect Blue are both good films. Ninja Scroll is okay but quite violent (better than Fist of the North Star for sure ). I haven't seen the Patlabor movies, but I understand Oshii worked on at least one of them, so I need to.
I've heard of those other two titles, but not in glowing terms. More along the lines of "well, that wasn't as bad as I expected from a hentai story".

--"Anybody heard of the titles"

Nausicaa, as Ixnay points out, is a Miyazaki movie. One of the ones I haven't seen yet
The encyclopedia entry sounds accurate judging by what I've heard about it. I believe this just came out on DVD in Japan (with English subs).

Kare Kano (His and Her Circumstances) I've seen some of. The entry is not quite accurate, since they fall in love quite early in the series (one of the things that sets this apart from most anime romances). More of the story is about them coping with love and a relationship than about forming it. What I saw of it was very well done.
From what I've heard it does decline in quality near the end of the series, where they caught up with the manga and had to do their own stories. Still, I liked the earlier eps enough that I'll be picking up the set once Right Stuf is done with it.

Wraith
"I really love this person. He cannot help hurting himself to protect his loved ones."
-- Miyazawa Yukino ("Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou")

	17-10-2002 10:07									#84
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Wraith --"Next on the list is "Key." Just gotta get paid for landscaping first." Another good one. The second-to-last episode is a bit long-winded, but other than that it's a good series. One of the creepiest villians you'll ever see, too. Fits the dark trend you seem to be in, as well.

For the villain, do you mean Ajo, or Sergei ('D')? Or both?

	17-10-2002 10:38									#85
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I just watched Princess Mononoke last Saturday.

It blew me away! It also left me rather confused, because so much was not explicitly stated in the film. Are all Studio Ghibli films like this?

	17-10-2002 17:33									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

--"For the villain, do you mean Ajo, or Sergei ('D')? Or both?"

Ajo. D isn't that creepy. But Ajo...

--"It blew me away! It also left me rather confused, because so much was not explicitly stated in the film. Are all Studio Ghibli films like this?"

Well, Mononoke is atypical of Miyazaki's work. His stuff is usually more family-oriented, and he usually doesn't push the ideology buttons quite as hard.
However, the "not explicitly stated" part is pretty common. Anime as a whole does this a lot more than US movies (animated or not). All the Studio Ghibli films I've seen do this to some extent.
Japanese writers are just more open to the idea that their audiences aren't complete idiots who need to have every little thing spelled out for them

For those following the End of Evangelion problems, US Manga has finally made a non-response. Note that this isn't an official annoucement, just an e-mail they're sending people who actively complain.
All in all, it's a fine example of How Not To Handle Customer Service. "It's not our fault, you must not know how to work a DVD player, but send it to us and we'll replace it if we feel like it. Oh, and look at all our satisfied customers." US Manga just permanently lost a rather large chunk of the fanbase, and I bet the retailers are even starting to get pissed off at them.

Three weeks. It took them three weeks to get this out. Their head PR guy really needs to be fired. Ack. When Bandai had problems with Escaflowne the movie they had a replacement scheme running in three days. They even paid for postage on the returns.

Looks like it's time to buy Read or Die imports...

Wraith
"So that's your plan, nuke the psycho? Well that's original."
- Hiyami (Blue Submarine #6)

	18-10-2002 09:26									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Good recommendation on Jin-Roh -- the local video store had a DVD copy, so I watched it tonight. My initial rating would be an 8 or a 9. (I love how old fairy tales always manage to incorporate cannibalism.)

I also saw Blood: The Last Vampire (the same store had a copy, and I had a 2 for 1 coupon), and my initial (and final) rating is a 3 or 4. The animation was superb, but the story was all but non-existent. I kicked myself after renting it, since the back of the rental box said something along the lines of "If you enjoyed this movie, then you will probably also enjoy X", which would imply that if I think that X is a worthless movie then I shouldn't bother with Blood: The Last Vampire. Oh well, that'll learn me to read the warning labels next time.

	18-10-2002 09:34									#88
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Wraith Japanese writers are just more open to the idea that their audiences aren't complete idiots who need to have every little thing spelled out for them

	18-10-2002 11:20									#89
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Wraith --"It blew me away! It also left me rather confused, because so much was not explicitly stated in the film. Are all Studio Ghibli films like this?" Well, Mononoke is atypical of Miyazaki's work. His stuff is usually more family-oriented, and he usually doesn't push the ideology buttons quite as hard. However, the "not explicitly stated" part is pretty common. Anime as a whole does this a lot more than US movies (animated or not). All the Studio Ghibli films I've seen do this to some extent. Japanese writers are just more open to the idea that their audiences aren't complete idiots who need to have every little thing spelled out for them

Love miyazaki's work.. didnt you say before that his older films are making a reappearance in theather? if so which ones?

quote: For those following the End of Evangelion problems, US Manga has finally made a non-response. Note that this isn't an official annoucement, just an e-mail they're sending people who actively complain.

Thats one series I can watch over and over again. So EoE on DVD is not out? That and my ex reminds me of asuka. Gainax must have known her personally its too much similarity!

	18-10-2002 17:02									#90
	Put an end to popups!

Hey Calc, what is the good Korean anime and manga?

Koreans seem to devour the stuff, but if you ask them about Made in Korea stuff they get all defensive and claim it's Japanese or something.