25-09-2002 10:18									#61
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Yes. A socialist did.

	25-09-2002 19:31									#62
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Language, writing, paper, printing. I suppose argiculture is somewhere up there too.

	25-09-2002 19:37									#63
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Doesn't language come first? After all writing was just a convenient way of keeping it around...

Well, humans didn't invent language. Ours is more perfected and universal, but most vertabrates communicate verbally. Dogs howl and bark. Cats meow and purr. Monkeys chatter.

Language may be more important, but all life communicates somehow (scents, etc.) Ours is just more complex and subtle.

I would say writing is more important becuase it allowed a legacy for information. Now communication could be stored for future use.

	25-09-2002 19:44									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin And how poorly English grammar is used.

..not to mention English spelling

My vote also goes for the domestication of the Wild Plough

	26-09-2002 05:10									#65
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quote: Well, humans didn't invent language. Ours is more perfected and universal, but most vertabrates communicate verbally. Dogs howl and bark. Cats meow and purr. Monkeys chatter. Language may be more important, but all life communicates somehow (scents, etc.) Ours is just more complex and subtle.

We invented our language, and if we hadn't developed it this far, like I said, we wouldn't be anything more than bright monkeys.

quote: I would say writing is more important becuase it allowed a legacy for information. Now communication could be stored for future use.

Yes, writing was very important, especially in the development of the state, but it's merely a subsection of language, really.

	26-09-2002 05:53									#66
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Metal working and the wheel.

Strictly speaking, language was not 'invented'. Rather, it evoved from zero in the course of thousands of years.

quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Are you refering to radio? Marconi (who mainly worked in England), and some German guy (Braun?) won the Nobel prize jointly. And we all know which semi-american the US Supreme court accredited as the inventor of the radio.

Actually, the radio was first invented by Popov in Russia. Unfortunately, this is not recognized in the West.

	26-09-2002 05:56									#67
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quote: Strictly speaking, language was not 'invented'. Rather, it evoved from zero in the course of thousands of years.

Couldn't you say that about every other early human invention as well?

	26-09-2002 06:02									#68
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Of course, not. For example, the wheel most certainly dawned upon some genius in a flash of revelation.

	26-09-2002 06:03									#69
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Apart from that?

	26-09-2002 06:19									#70
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The very notion of invention assumes its revolutionary character, i.e. a fast and drastic modification in the way things are done, in contrast with a gradual evolution. Therefore, language can't be termed invention.

quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Apart from that?

For example, fire, metal working, agriculture, gunpowder are all inventions.

	26-09-2002 06:54									#71
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The greatest invention is, of course, Invention. Duh.

	26-09-2002 07:13									#72
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This is an answer from the series "If you play too much Civ".

	26-09-2002 07:28									#73
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quote: For example, fire, metal working, agriculture, gunpowder are all inventions.

Fire wasn't exactly 'invented'; it was already there. Metal working and agriculture wouldn't fit your criteria for invention; they too evolved, rather than just striking someone like a flash of lightning. Gunpowder isn't exacly an early human invention.

EDIT: spelling.

	26-09-2002 07:48									#74
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Fire wasn't exactly 'invented'; it was already there.

By 'fire' as an invention we don't actually mean fire as such, but rather artificial extraction of fire by humans. And that was a big deal of an invention.

quote: Metal working and agriculture wouldn't fit your criteria for invention; they too evolved, rather than just striking someone like a flash of lightning.

Sure, they too evolved. Nevertheless, it is understood that at certain moment of history, food extraction underwent a drastic and revolutionary change in a relatively short period of time. (From simple gathering to agriculture). This permits to regard it an invention.

quote: Gunpowder isn't exacly an early human invention.

True.

	26-09-2002 08:13									#75
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quote: By 'fire' as an invention we don't actually mean fire as such, but rather artificial extraction of fire by humans. And that was a big deal of an invention.

At what point do you define that as having occurred? When humans first started using it? Or when they were first able to light a fire themselves?

quote: Sure, they too evolved. Nevertheless, it is understood that at certain moment of history, food extraction underwent a drastic and revolutionary change in a relatively short period of time. (From simple gathering to agriculture). This permits to regard it an invention.

True. But it all depends on what you define as a 'relatively short period of time'.

	26-09-2002 08:15									#76
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Stop being so bloody pedantic. Take the broad view of what constitutes an "invention"...

	26-09-2002 08:24									#77
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[whiny voice]He started it![/whiny voice]

	26-09-2002 12:17									#79
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Language is a lot older than humanity, and doesn't belong in this discussion unless we are talking about some particular innovation (perhaps tenses or something) in language that gave it a significantly increased utility.

	26-09-2002 14:22									#80
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Sharp edge.
Used for cutting other people, animals, and later, of course, sliced bread.

	26-09-2002 22:05									#81
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One last thing: computers.

	26-09-2002 22:08									#82
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quote: Language is a lot older than humanity, and doesn't belong in this discussion unless we are talking about some particular innovation (perhaps tenses or something) in language that gave it a significantly increased utility.

Esperanto and Klingon spring to mind.

	26-09-2002 22:11									#83
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Language is a lot older than humanity? That would have to depend on your definition of "language," then.

	26-09-2002 22:15									#84
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BEER!

	26-09-2002 22:22									#86
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Prostitution/Politics

	26-09-2002 22:24									#87
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print->radio->TV->internet

Its all about communication

	27-09-2002 00:10									#88
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Me. I'm in fact a DL invented by Adalbertus who in turn is a DL of mine.