28-09-2002 22:34									#61
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Especially seeing as you appear to find it perfectly acceptable to commit an act of war on another nation peacefully going about the business of building a power station within it's own borders...

I think that the world is greatful to Israel for thier raid on an Iraqi nuclear power plant in the 80's.

	29-09-2002 05:01									#62
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quote: Especially seeing as you appear to find it perfectly acceptable to commit an act of war on another nation peacefully going about the business of building a power station within it's own borders...

A power station. Riiight.

You know, Israel too has two nuclear reactors. Both power stations. Yeah

	29-09-2002 08:33									#63
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No matter what Iraq does, Israel is not justified in using weapons of mass destruction - or any weapons, for that matter - intentionally against Iraqi civilians.

Just because Saddam (hypothetically) sees fit to commit murder doesn't mean that Israel has any moral right to do the same thing.

Nuclear weapons against military targets, designed to greatly, greatly minimize civilians casualties? I have no problem with that, as long as this option is not exercised in response to a THREAT, but in response to an ACTION.

	29-09-2002 09:21									#64
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Floyd - basically I agree with you, but in the dark world of the ME, if an Iraqi attack hurts Israel severely - there'd be no other way to retaliate quickly and forcefully, and reapprove our deterrance than using nukes.

On what targets? Probably military and industry.

	29-09-2002 12:15									#65
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But the problem, Sirot, is to make sure you find a target not located in or near a city.

Don't nuke Baghdad on the justification that there are military targets inside of it. That's like justifying the atomic bombing of Hiroshima on the basis of a major IJA HQ being based there. It doesn't hold up.

	30-09-2002 03:09									#66
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DF - It doesn't hold up to some people and it does to others. It's a morality issue.

And from knocking heads with you in the past, I recall you have a different view of morals than I do.

Not that I disagree with you - on a theoretical level.

Sometimes, it all comes to who is the most fearsome. Yeah, I know it is even more stupid and pointless and cruel than it sounds. But that is what the Middle East is all about.

	30-09-2002 03:31									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov 1) If they build a nuclear reactor - it won't last long. Same goes for Iran which is about to finish it's reactor.

An israeli strike against a Russian built (not indegenous) reactor would not be wise for Israel. besides the Iranian sna Russians have signed a deal for several more reactors.

quote: 2) We don't need US intelligence that much no more since we've launched Ofek 5

Sorry to say that Ofek 5 doesn't compare- in qualit or quantity, to US equipment. Its not all about satelites.

quote: quote: The US keeps saying it hasn't decided. Bullsh1t, it has, just trying to get the diplomacy right. Every state as to measure its own self-interests. Exactly.

Slight misquote: the last sentence goes with the next quote.

Good to know there are some thing we do agree on. Again, nice Otter.

	30-09-2002 20:05									#68
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd But the problem, Sirot, is to make sure you find a target not located in or near a city. Don't nuke Baghdad on the justification that there are military targets inside of it. That's like justifying the atomic bombing of Hiroshima on the basis of a major IJA HQ being based there. It doesn't hold up.

Mmmm!
Don't crash a plane into the WTC!
Don't crash a plane into the Pentagon, in the middle of Washington, on the justification that it's a military target.

Be careful what you sow, for so shall ye reap.

	30-09-2002 20:16									#69
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quote: Don't crash a plane into the Pentagon, in the middle of Washington, on the justification that it's a military target.

Actually the Pentagon was a valid target. An airliner is not a "weapon of mass destruction", and it was not aimed at a civilian target.

	01-10-2002 23:26									#70
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quote: An israeli strike against a Russian built (not indegenous) reactor would not be wise for Israel. besides the Iranian sna Russians have signed a deal for several more reactors.

They get their pay. What do they care?

THey also helped Iraq iirc and nothing happenned to us then.

quote: Sorry to say that Ofek 5 doesn't compare- in qualit or quantity, to US equipment. Its not all about satelites.

i'm sure you have much more money worth up in the sky.

However, I have a feeling we are more... erm... efficient. And have interesting scientific developements.

And if you are talking about Mossad agents - then erm... let's say I've read american sources claiming that the Mossad predicted 9/11 before the CIA and also tracked all the muslim extremists.

quote: Again, nice Otter.

Thanks.

It's not mine.

	01-10-2002 23:34									#71
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As I said, the Russians have contracted to build several in Iran. This is not just a research reactor, like the one in Iraq, or diasmona back in '65 with some French help- this is a fully designed power-plant- it is much bigger than the Iraqi one, and closer to civilian centers than some research reactor: an attack, speaiclly once there is fissionable material in, would not be wise- I dont think anyone thinks one can bomb a large nuclear powerplant without some major environmental consequences- including immense diplomatic ones- speaicly f a bunch of Russian engineers are also killed.

And on tracking mobile SCUD launchers, if any: intelligence agents (spies) are not the key. Equipment to track, or try to track, small eauipment in a vast desert is what one needs. More earth based electronic toys.