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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
IMHO, when a company can't decide between historical realism (water poisoning), cold war paranoia so "James Bond's movie" (implanting nuclear device), and the sudden discover that terrorism exist in USA because of the orrible tragedy...
well, let me put in this way: point 1 and 2 should justify keeping the spy attack options into the game, point 3 mean that someone decided to ignore that terrorist attack killed thousand people everywhere in the world since many years, and we shouldn't forget millions of soldiers and civilians killed during wars (but fighting wars are at the hearth of Civ III, aren't it?).
Let me clarify this again: I respect the thousand of people died during the 9/11, as many others victims of others horror around the world.
I simply note that Civ II spy attack were not so similar to a suicide terroristic attack to offend common taste. It simply seems to me a bad case of unneeded Political Correctness.
But I live many more miles far from New York, so maybe I'm dead wrong.  |
you shouldnt be apologising for any possibility of offending the death of 9/11 nor defend the feature is anyway since thats not the issue. One should still intentionally put exact scenario of 9/11 in game since feeedom of speech and press is wat democracy is about.
The decision if they took out terrorist features because of 9/11, was made soley on marketing decision. Even if it is nothing about 9/11, some shmuck will find it offensive, rant and then it will be brought attention to public and sales will be hurt because of bad rep (sadly even if its undeserved bad rep can hurt sales).
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Cidifer
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that thing from spider man was made specifically for the trailer it wasn't in the actualy movie and it certainly didn't hurt as it's been the top grossing movie of the year, though LOTR should give it a good run for it's money. Also if you don't care about seeing the WTC being blown up in stuff then that's your bussiness you probably didn't lose any family memebers, that's selfish to say that people shouldn't be sensitive because you don't find it offensive. I mean why not have racist words in Civ3 while we're at it? How about if your Japan and the leader doesn't like your offer he calls you a stupid gook? hey I'm not asian it doesn't afend me! or you could think of similar things for the Zulu and the Chinese and Arabs and so on.
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Cidifer
that thing from spider man was made specifically for the trailer it wasn't in the actualy movie and it certainly didn't hurt as it's been the top grossing movie of the year, though LOTR should give it a good run for it's money. Also if you don't care about seeing the WTC being blown up in stuff then that's your bussiness you probably didn't lose any family memebers, that's selfish to say that people shouldn't be sensitive because you don't find it offensive. I mean why not have racist words in Civ3 while we're at it? How about if your Japan and the leader doesn't like your offer he calls you a stupid gook? hey I'm not asian it doesn't afend me! or you could think of similar things for the Zulu and the Chinese and Arabs and so on. |
dude i live in NY, and and many people around me were affected.. Including my family. Some were physically hurt from the debris.. That still doesnt change it being from being stupid that they have to change things, just because "oh people died, things are emotional blah blah blah".
Why would it matter if Westwood's pic of WTC being hit by missle is not even intended to mock WTC incident is all im saying... think about that. let alone the box was created BEFORE WTC.
I can understand that this is a tragic event. Fortunately no family members were killed on my side and many of my friends almost lost their parents and barely escaped death. That still doesnt matter. I have plenty emotional reasons to not want to perhaps see WTC being blowed up... but I should not be offended by a content that isn't even in meaningful way connected to 9/11 or EVEN created after date of 9/11. (since they most likely wouldnt have known about the plan unless they had connection with al qaeda) Its so stupid that everyone around me treats 9/11 as almost a taboo. Everyone expects same thoughts and reactions. I hate how all arabs i know react equally. It's okay that they feel neutral toward the issue or have no opinion in the matter, but since they are kinda in a spotlight, they do act differently and sensitively when 9/11 is mentioned. It's not fair. This is free country and they shouldnt take all the heat of special treatment (not necesarily because they think of them a terrorist) cause they are arabs. and they don;t need to support american cause 100% like some blind patriot either. We know most of them are model citizens who pay their taxes and obey the law, we shoulnt create an uncomfortable enviornment for them so that they feel compelled to distinguish their loyalty to this country.
I know my profile doesnt have my location so you probably thought I was some guy who lived away from US where I was insensitve toward the emotional impact, but its the total opposite. Well you couldnt have known so I dont blame you. I was there. I missed school to hang at my friend's dorm in NYU that day and I couldnt have possibly have known what I was in for when I did that. But I wish I was far away cause I would have genuinely cared.... But being right here... I get to see all the ugly side that people ignore, refuse and don;t talk about. To exaggerate the issue, it's almost idea of democracy has been tossed away after the whole 9/11 on a psychological level. In that way terrorist did win. I hate that.
Last edited by Zero on 04-10-2002 at 10:20
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:22
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Beside even if it is intentionally geared to insult WTC. We have to let them voice their opinion. Thats the price of free country. Yes we have to let White supremacist demonstrate peacefully and protect them from mobs that will hurt them. THAT is DEMOCRACY... and emotion running rampant right now is destroying it and making people forget what the price of freedom is. Price of freedom is just not our soldiers sheding blood to protect us from these strange looking guy wanting to blow us up.
now that I hopefully cleared that we should have the right to our speech, I want to reemphasize that what saddens me is that I strongly feel most of the WTC editing done by Games and media was due to marketting reason. It shouldnt offend us. From logical point of view, it's not in meaningful way gearing toward WTC. Let alone the scene, concept art wasnt done after the 9/11 incident. Even if it was done related to WTC incident, would all racist statement as you mentioned be distasteful? As you said, you asked me if I would be offended by the word 'gook' in Civ. Well, how can I determine the offensive content without the usage? Word without usage is meaningless and I am perplexed to how to respond to your question. This goes with the forever unending controversy over the N word used by whites long ago to define blacks. JLo was flamed for saying the word on a song written by Ja rule? You can't just blindly declare something offensive, because it's "controversial". of course from marketting point it is best to avoid all controversial issues whether it is correct or incorrect.
And one more BTW, Im not japanese, which i think you referred me as.. thats a South Korean Flag. But it's understandable that you can get between asian country mixed up, i wont blame anyone for not knowing countries flag.. (I prolly wont do to well on eastern european flag test myself)
I just hope more people open their thoughts on WTC event. I may be trying to sound like I'm the only intelligent, wise person when I say this (Im not trying to.. I swear  ), but it looks as just about I am the only one to TRY to see with unclouded eyes. Most people and friends when I talk to them almost sound like a robot. I can't blame them,. i can understand the emotional level, which is kinda hard to refute when most saw plane just crash right on (if not saw the building crumble down from far) and the media did a great job villifying the entire arab population that day by constantly reminding us that they cheered when the building came down.
and now i apologize for gearing this thread off topic.
Last edited by Zero on 04-10-2002 at 09:37
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Cidifer
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That was my point, obviously you don't care what they show! but you need to relize people who did lose family and friends DO! Also in the US you don't have the right to say whatever you want, that's why there are laws and people who'd kick your ass. Anyway I've yet to meet anyone who has said "I didn't go buy that game\ see that movie because it didn't show the World Trade Center getting blown up" but I know there are thousands of people who can't even stand to watch the tapes or it much less stand to see a completely new version of it being blown up. I personally really don't mind seeing the WTC just standing there. However when things that haven't been released yet show it or the empire state builind or some other famous sky scraper being blown up why not take it out? I mean if you've already released it then there's nothing you can do, also in a few years we'll probably see a bunch of movies with buildings getting blown up again anyway, so who cares if you don't get to see it for a few years. Also in probably 10, 15, 20 they'll be showing the tapes all day and we'll probably have movies about it just like we see tapes and movies of pearl harbor.
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:22
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sigh i dont think u read all of my boring post... its rather long anyway.. well lets not get too off the topic, and if u wanna keep this up,
People don't have freedom of speech in USA? We allow Ku klux Klan to speak out about how whites are superior and all blacks should be hanged... and if someone attempts to hurt them during the demonstaration, they will be arrested... Dont you know about that? and im repeating this again!
whatever, we should pm me instead of wasting thread space and i'll be more than welcome to chat wit u.
EDIT: Btw out of curiosity, do u live in US? Im not trying to offend you if you do but you don seem to know much about the first amendment issues AND thats my basis for my arguement NOT my opinion.. i havent really stated much of my own opinion about WTC really since its irrelevant.
Last edited by Zero on 06-10-2002 at 03:03
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Zero
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Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
time: 00:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Cidifer
That was my point, obviously you don't care what they show! but you need to relize people who did lose family and friends DO!
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Oh really? Are you sure? If so, how so? How are you sure it is false that some don't care? Have you asked them? Polled them? Or are you expecting them to be sensitive about the WTC?
quote:
Also in the US you don't have the right to say whatever you want, that's why there are laws and people who'd kick your ass.
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First Amendment and the right to the 1st as long as there is no "clear and present danger". Can you prove the danger?
quote:
Anyway I've yet to meet anyone who has said "I didn't go buy that game\ see that movie because it didn't show the World Trade Center getting blown up" but I know there are thousands of people who can't even stand to watch the tapes or it much less stand to see a completely new version of it being blown up.
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I never argued including WTC intentionally to boost sales. I don't think that will happen anyway (actually.. some ppl made big publicty off of WTC, artist like Enya and that guy who sings about New york and had WTC on the scene really profited from the attack), But should inclusion of WTC, terrorism or building blowing up have negative impact on sale of anything? That is my real important question!
quote:
I personally really don't mind seeing the WTC just standing there. However when things that haven't been released yet show it or the empire state builind or some other famous sky scraper being blown up why not take it out?
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Interesting, but I have no interest in your personal opinion, let alone mine as of this moment. What does your or mine opinion belong in any of this?
btw wat does empire state building have to do with WTC and why should scene of emire state be taken out? just because its in ny? then should we have spiderman living in cali? o wait its still in US lets have him live in Paris.
quote:
I mean if you've already released it then there's nothing you can do, also in a few years we'll probably see a bunch of movies with buildings getting blown up again anyway, so who cares if you don't get to see it for a few years. Also in probably 10, 15, 20 they'll be showing the tapes all day and we'll probably have movies about it just like we see tapes and movies of pearl harbor.
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My point exactly, Loss of a loved one never ends to hurt. My grandfather will grieve over the experience during WW II, I'm sure other's grandfather who were at pearl harbor will feel the same when watching Pearl harbor the movie now. So then, what is the whole tabooness for the WTC for then? If we will see arnold schzweneger drop out of WTC as it is being blown up in spectacular scene 3 years later? Well obviously it's not gonna be for people effected by it since they will deal with it for rest of their life. Then who else? who else will pretend to care and quickly forget and laugh at buildings blowing up once again?
Last edited by Zero on 06-10-2002 at 06:28
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JonahFalcon
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New York, NY USA
Nov 2000
time: 05:22
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GGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!
Enough!
I live in New York, and I'm sick of this political crap - if I want politics, I'll turn to CNN.
Stick to the game portions of Civ, pls.
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JonahFalcon
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New York, NY USA
Nov 2000
time: 05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
There is an option to toggle the advanced action buttons on or off.
Dan |
Hey Dan, who did I play for the turnless play test? Did you guys read either part of the preview?
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03-10-2002 08:44
I wish I had a button to turn those buttons off 
months of posts against Firaxis because many commands are only available using shortcut, then you want to hide them! 
).
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