04-10-2002 07:32									#31
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx No, but WE are bound by gOd. (there is ONE with two facez people...) There is nothing wrong with writing it in so the new people can read WHY our Prophet is voted upon. If gOd changes it, well, that is an amendment that can pass with no voting, right? Senate? Laws? I know of no such things. And while I have yur attention, I just posted a couple of polls you will want to add.

Saw the polls, will add soon.

Constitutional Convention terms:
Senate: Body of players.
Laws: Sort of like official polls; decisions the senate is allowed to make. The idea that the Senate can pass laws not appropriate for inclusion in the Constitution. Credit to Togas for the idea. Is already public knowledge, and is just an idea (won't promise it'll be in there), so I'm not giving away Constitutional Convention secrets or anything .

As for the gOdz, I agree (decisions from them are amendments that don't need voting on), but I still don't think it needs inclusion in the Constitution -- the players can decide what they need when they need to.

-- adaMada

	04-10-2002 18:06									#32
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The Con Con is actually DOING something?

I thought you were all waiting for me to fix the current CoL with a flurry of amendments.

I disagree that it should not be included. It should be in the CoL, a place where each new player will go to find what goes on here. There should be an inclusion about the local Prophet, his responsibilities, and how he was/is chosen. I don't know if these 'laws' will be written in a book of laws or some such, but they sound cumbersome to me. Look at your own official poll archive. You want to keep track of all those 'laws'?

Besides, it seems you are basing this on a constitution that has not yet even a rough draft presented to the public, let alone being voted and passed.

As I have said elsewhere repeatedly, until we SEE this Constitution, and VOTE on it replacing our current CoL, we must live with the current CoL. As such, this should be added as an amendment.

	05-10-2002 01:25									#33
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx The Con Con is actually DOING something? I thought you were all waiting for me to fix the current CoL with a flurry of amendments.

Hey, don't give away the secret ...

quote: I disagree that it should not be included. It should be in the CoL, a place where each new player will go to find what goes on here. There should be an inclusion about the local Prophet, his responsibilities, and how he was/is chosen. I don't know if these 'laws' will be written in a book of laws or some such, but they sound cumbersome to me. Look at your own official poll archive. You want to keep track of all those 'laws'?

The 'laws' are a very perliminary idea, which obviously doesn't mean anything until the new CoL has been passed. Having said that, some thought has gone into it, and I'm confident that we'll come forth with something workable.

quote: Besides, it seems you are basing this on a constitution that has not yet even a rough draft presented to the public, let alone being voted and passed. As I have said elsewhere repeatedly, until we SEE this Constitution, and VOTE on it replacing our current CoL, we must live with the current CoL. As such, this should be added as an amendment.

Very true, but I'm only asking for input on if it should be in the new CoL. I honestly don't care if you add it to the current one -- I wouldn't, but your choice . My question is if it needs to be explicitly mentioned in the new one, or if the new section of the old COL will be considered, and may stay or go for the new proposal. You clearly think it should, and I'll personally take that (and other Citizen responses) into account when I think about how I will respond to the issue if it comes up, or if I should bring it up at all.

Really, just asking for input, not trying to make any decision on it here .

-- adaMada

	05-10-2002 01:48									#34
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Eh. Maybe we just need to have a (insert religious document here) that lists the words of the two FaceZ of gOd and the prOphEt.

	05-10-2002 02:09									#35
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Just because you're inserting a non-democratic element into an otherwise democratic system does not mean that it can't be handled in a legal way (agreeing with Unortho here). The German Empire did it with the Chancellorship from 1870 all the way through the end of the First World War - the Chancellor was accountable to the Reichstag, but he could be nominated or booted by the Kaiser at will.

Here's what might work for our mod/prophet:

1. The position is chosen by a democratic election on the same terms as the other positions (1 month), though with NO term limits (this is a position where I would be ESPECIALLY opposed to term limits).

2. In addition to the normal impeachment procedures, the g0dz are reserved the right to summarily remove the mod/prophet from their post at any time and for any reason. This is a special right reserved for them in the case of this one position.

3. In the event that the mod/prophet is removed by the g0dz, we replace the position as we would any other vacant office.

For role-playing purposes, this could mean we have something of an official state religion in which we need *someone* to be the designated intermediary between our nation in the mortal realm and the divine g0dz. The fact that the g0dz really exist and our existence on these boards really is dependent on their generosity removes the whole problem of faith (and multiple faiths) inherent in establishing state religions in RL . We don't have to do it that way, but it's pretty convenient role-playing-wise.

So there ya go .

	05-10-2002 21:38									#36
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On second thoughts perhaps you should pm him as he still hasn't replied to me.

	05-10-2002 21:57									#37
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I will remove myself from this as my RL situation at work has changed dramaticly in the past 2 days. I will bairly have time to do orders for the next two weeks, let alone consider another job til probably december at the earliest.

Thanks for the support. I still say we should just elect this position, just like any other position of authority in our government. To make things easier for MarkG I would suggest a fairly long term such as 3 months, with unlimited reelection possible. Also, I would say let this person seperate themselves from other positions to keep any potential abuse (real, accidental, or immagined) from occuring.

GK

	06-10-2002 00:48									#38
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gOd has spoked and he has said

tHe cUrrent pResident wIll have fOrum mOderation aNd cHat oPeration pOwers aS sOon aS gOd sEts uP tHings

it said, and it will be done

	06-10-2002 00:51									#39
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clarification: at the start, the forum moderator wont have edit/deletion powers

	06-10-2002 01:00									#40
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more clarifications:

if a president whose term is ending would like to continue do the moderator job and the people agree it will be fine for us...

or if the president want to pass the job over to someone and again the people agree, it's the same

remember, in the end moderatorship is a job, not power...

	06-10-2002 01:19									#41
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Markos,
Thanks! We can finally end the debate and start doing useful stuff with it!

Will this modship start with OPD, or will you be waiting till next term?

-- adaMada

	06-10-2002 01:27									#42
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG more clarifications: if a president whose term is ending would like to continue do the moderator job and the people agree it will be fine for us... or if the president want to pass the job over to someone and again the people agree, it's the same remember, in the end moderatorship is a job, not power...

make me run for president will you?!!?!

	06-10-2002 01:28									#43
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No more PM's asking me to top and untop 20 threads...



GO MARK GO!

	06-10-2002 01:31									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ming No more PM's asking me to top and untop 20 threads... GO MARK GO!

when the demogame was first starting, i asked to be a mod, and markos said it was unneccessary. WHOS LAUGHING NOW MARKOS

	06-10-2002 01:35									#45
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX when the demogame was first starting, i asked to be a mod, and markos said it was unneccessary. WHOS LAUGHING NOW MARKOS

We are... because you guys are volunteering to do the grunt work, while we still maintain real mod powers

	06-10-2002 01:57									#46
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I'm laughing at the fact that someone who said someone else should be mod has become mod.

	06-10-2002 02:12									#47
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Watch out Apoc. OPD can still throw the power off onto you .

-- adaMada

	06-10-2002 02:16									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG clarification: at the start, the forum moderator wont have edit/deletion powers

How about editing polls and closing?

Close for official threads and the occasional 'oops, that was supposed to be a reply', and editing polls for all those stupid mistakes we primatives make . We do ok without both, so I don't feel that strongly, but boy they'd be nice .

-- adaMada

	06-10-2002 02:21									#49
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Hmmmn I wonder if this means I'll be an operator for the chat tommorrow. Not that we've needed an operator so far this term, I think WB is the operator in the irc.

I can see what MarkG is thinking though as now rather than pming ming to top/detop the pres just does it himself and the only person guarnteed to be at the chat is the pres, unless the vp takes it of course.

So I guess this just means that I top the election threads then detop them and then the next pres takes over. No big deal really.

	06-10-2002 02:30									#50
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Hmmmn I wonder if this means I'll be an operator for the chat tommorrow. Not that we've needed an operator so far this term, I think WB is the operator in the irc. I can see what MarkG is thinking though as now rather than pming ming to top/detop the pres just does it himself and the only person guarnteed to be at the chat is the pres, unless the vp takes it of course. So I guess this just means that I top the election threads then detop them and then the next pres takes over. No big deal really.

Yea, this is way better. Ming must be thrilled .

In IRC, it's whoever gets there first. WB does sometimes, so he's the op. In general, it's not a problem. We haven't needed to use it so far, so...

Well, guess I'd really better run for Pres. sometime then ...

-- adaMada

	06-10-2002 13:17									#51
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quote: How about editing polls and closing?

under the settings that i have in mind i believe poll managment will be allowed

	06-10-2002 16:44									#52
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I just read the thread you posted in the ACDG forum, Markos.

There's many people here who I'm sure would do a good job. I'd be interested myself, and I'm available often enough, but TKG, MrWhereItAt, DeathByTheSword and others would all be good candidates.

	06-10-2002 22:27									#53
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: How about editing polls and closing? under the settings that i have in mind i believe poll managment will be allowed

Yea, ok! Go Markos. I've suddenly become religious .

-- adaMada