05-10-2002 19:33									#31
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or would it be a civil war?

	05-10-2002 19:36									#32
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Davout, I was converted when Trotsky appears to me in a dream, an epiphany, and told me that changes happens, and he was promoted to Saint. I'm planning to build a cathedral dedicated to him in every city, the "First Saint Lev Davidovich Bronstein Cathedral", the “Second Saint Lev Davidovich Bronstein Cathedral” and etc. You know, "panis et circensis". We can change the bread (panis) into bananas, but we don't have clowns enough for the circus (well, I may be wrong… ). However, we have priests. A lot of them... So, let's make Cathedrals!

	05-10-2002 19:37									#33
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I support the Republican movement. I am a citizen here as propally future ambassador (I need two more votes to make it official), so I think my opinion counts.

	05-10-2002 20:04									#34
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[Arnelos takes a page from UnOrthOdOx's playbook...]

jdd2007,

Let me get this straight... the leader of the Hawk Party... the party that has done nothing since antiquity but malign the DIA in thread after thread after thread for being "a bunch of panzy no-good peaceniks", "sissies", "cowards", and even "traitors" is now whining about being labeled?!?!?

I honestly don't see how placing people's names on a list of those who oppose the switch to republic in terms of "enemies of the people" (which, given the role-play here, is entirely appropriate coming from revolutionaries - and revolutions are generally very bloody affairs) isn't terribly off the mark. In reality, the words being exchanged would be FAR more harsh... real lives would be at stake and the threats to chop off each others' heads would be all too scarily real... We're just mimicing what little we can put in here of that w/o actually causing any more harm than any other propaganda campaign in this game has done...

So not only is this obviously meant in jest and is part of the role-play as we gear up toward the revolution, but the hawks are the last people I'd expect to be whining about this type of thing...

[Arnelos gives UnOrthOdOx his playbook back ]

Ok, seriously now... I understand your issue. However, this really is just role-play elements that are not significantly different from, say, the rather humurous role-play threads accusing Ninot of being in bed (literally...) with our enemies becuase he was a "panzy" when he was President.

That said, I fully understand that this is a game and I respect that. As long as we don't get too carried away here and get all upset at what is being said in jest, then we'll be cool. You might note that I've already attempted to tone it down a little, even though it would be thoroughly unrealistic for that to really happen because it's a game and we should get along... that said, the role-play can be fun if you don't take it too seriously.

Sorry if I really peeved some people off...

	05-10-2002 20:10									#35
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada I gotta agree with jdd on this one -- I know Arnelos doesn't mean it to be taken seriously (outside of who supports switch to Republic and who doesn't) and is just roleplaying, but some of it doesn't make sense considering who supports staying at monarchy. UberKrux? OPD? Ghengis? Enemies of the people? Or War-decorated SMC? Fine President? Noble Banker? Clearly, this 'enemy of the people' status needs to be rethought -- in present company, I'd be honored to be included in such a group. Perhaps the categoies could be changed to 'Allies of the Monarch" vs 'Allies of the People?' -- adaMada

This is a reasonable suggestion. Though a real republican revolutionary movement would certainly label their enemies as the "enemies of the people", a more neutral news source (HINT! HINT!) might be unbiased enough to label them as "Royalists" and "Republicans".

I'm sure we can do something like that...

	05-10-2002 20:21									#36
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I like to believe the people have more sense than to choose enemies based on but one issue anyway.

Whilst you're all arguing, I'm off drinking in the luxurious Apolytonian sun, "supervising" the "population growth initiatives" on Uber Island.

Why, the population is growing.... like rabbits!

	05-10-2002 20:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by OPD PEOPLE WHO NOW SEEM TO LEAN TOWARDS BEING ENEMIES OF OPD Arnelos

Good one

	05-10-2002 20:28									#38
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Thank heavens they forgot about me. Wouldn't want to be an enemy of the people due to my imperialism, and my constant attempts to get myself back into a position of power...et al...

	05-10-2002 20:29									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I like to believe the people have more sense than to choose enemies based on but one issue anyway.

Ah, but don't you see? That's precisely the accomplishment here! The switch to republic is now a major issue

	05-10-2002 20:31									#40
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People seem not to understand the role-play here... only people which specifically spoke against the switch to republic in other threads were included on that. The only people who even made it on the list were people who had posted in the republic-related threads.

If you don't find yourself on the list, there is no mystsery behind it... it's because you didn't post in the threads on the subject . For some of you, you obviously find this to have been a wise course of action .

	05-10-2002 20:31									#41
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Now, wait a minute, leave off the venerable General Uberkrux. He is no enemy of the people, but like the late General LeMarque, one of the few friends of the common man. We must remember whom our oldest and greatest war hero was. Uberkrux was a great commander, and if called back into active service, could be so again. I will not take part in any "crusade" against the man, even if the enviable Republic is formed.

	05-10-2002 20:33									#42
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Now, wait a minute, leave off the venerable General Uberkrux. He is no enemy of the people, but like the late General LeMarque, one of the few friends of the common man. We must remember whom our oldest and greatest war hero was. Uberkrux was a great commander, and if called back into active service, could be so again. I will not take part in any "crusade" against the man, even if the enviable Republic is formed.

uberkrux history guy

i'm against republic because it's going to radically change our warpath. i have always spoken out about anything that would change our warpath.

	05-10-2002 20:38									#43
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Hmm. I see... So you make a thread implicitly assuming that this is THE major issue and all the participants start to believe it also. Genius! Even I was fooled for a while.

Fellow Apolytonians - let us not be caught up in divisive bickering - think for yourselves whether this issue is worth such disagreements. When the option presents itself, we will have a poll. The outcome of this poll is what will be followed, whoever is in charge and whatever their views. Whether one supports Republicanism or not is entirely beside the point. Some may feel threatened by their name being in the wrong category here, but where is such a coloured classification as "enemy of the people" coming from? It is not a qualified title, merely journalistic style subjectivism!

Arnelos, I must congratulate you on the biggest success at stirring up unnecessary ire since the "revolution" a while back. Apolytonians - by all means have fun with this thread, but don't let it get to you - the views expressed here and any classification you may be given as "friend" or "enemy" of the people are wholly unsubstantiated.

I believe that no classification here will stop anyone from seeing the true worth of a candidate for any post. By way of example, although I have not yet nominated myself (or been nominated) for a post in the 5th Government, I request that Arnelos place me in the category "Enemies of the people". Does this make me an enemy of the people? Hell no! And no-one will see me as such, unless they have decided independently that I am an enemy, based on my past actions and posts as a whole.

	05-10-2002 20:58									#44
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MWIA,



Sure

I'm glad someone finally got it...

[roleplay]

Er... whether or not someone is in favor of republic should be the DEFINING ISSUE of this election! A litmus test for every position on the ballot!!! Are YOU a committed republican? The people want to know whether you are with them (republican) or against them (monarchist)!!

[/roleplay]

	05-10-2002 21:05									#45
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[rp]

I have edited the "list" posting so that the hawkish whiners now have the political correctness they so crave .

In a related development to this shift in Hawk Party philosophy, the Hawk Party is apparently holding a sing-a-long of various "Barney and Friends" albums this evening....

Apparently, UberKruX and History Guy have started early, you can hear them now... "I love you, you love me...."

[/rp]

Last edited by Arnelos on 05-10-2002 at 21:17

	05-10-2002 21:16									#46
	Remove this text

[rp]
I am a republican! I will only support nominees who also believe in the revolution, especially members of ARF!

Down with the nobility! Every Apolytonian born male deserves the right to serve his fellow citizens if he so chooses.
[/rp]

Good job Arnelos!

	05-10-2002 21:16									#47
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Hey why am I on not your list of supporters of the republic?

	05-10-2002 21:17									#48
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Arnelos,

MrMWIA must be happy : he is recorded under Neutral AND under Commited Monarchists. His next request will be te be entered under Republicans as well. Anyway, this is unconsequential since it is well known that ideologically a Neutral is worst than a Commited.

	05-10-2002 21:17									#49
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I am proud to wear the title "Enemy of the People". I have worked and will continue to work to show that this title is meaningless! Why, would an enemy of the people have helped train one of the Greatest Leaders we have ever raised, develop the military doctrine that is currently aiding us in our exceptional military successes or took us out of the Bad Old Time of Despotism into the enlightened nature of our current Monarchy? I think not.

A Republic may be good, or it may be bad for us. I am, as a good potential official ( ), open to the peoples' needs and desires, but am wary of any change that may cause more problems than it is worth.

This Republican movement must convince of the benefits outweighing the cons before we radically uplift our hierarchy. Who would make the better leaders? Those who push for change at the expense of all else, or those who sit on the fence, in doing so getting a really great view of both sides?

I have yet to see much beyond flag-waving and slogan calling. As a former representative of the Government, it must be said that the Republican movement better watch its back - have you ever heard of the Campaign for More Jungle or the Apolytonian Peoples' Committee for Total Capitulation to Persia? No, and let me tell you why. These organisations, knowing their cause was doomed to an absolute minority of supporters in the psychedelic banana- growing town of Lucy, were "silenced" by the Government for the greater good of Apolytonia. This Republican Front may have some more considerable support amongst the new literates of society, but the Government will have no qualms in treating it exactly the same way were it to be conceived as more of a hindrance than a help.

And that's no threat, remember I am an EX official. That is merely a statement of fact.

Ahhh, glory.

	05-10-2002 21:17									#50
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oops... adding Nimitz

	05-10-2002 21:31									#51
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[RP]The government might think of changing to a republic on there own. If they don't change some bad things might happen and we wouldn't that. This is not a threat but a warning of might happen or might not.

Long live the Republic of Apolytonia.
[/RP]

	06-10-2002 00:16									#52
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Lets see... Meshelic... on September 29, this monarchist posted:

quote:

Originally posted by Meshelic
Definetely we should hold off on the switching to Republic ... it could be disastrous"

----If you had paid attention to the previous dialogue I was responding to, you would have found that I was suggesting the postponement of Republic until AFTER we had completed our wars with Persia (and possibly America), TO DO SO BEFORE we ended our wars would be DISASTROUS...

"We might add that this is the same so-called "Shadow Service" which has been making public threats toward members of the Republican movement. Need I go on?"

The Shadow Service is sworn to protect our leaders in government, and has NO political agenda . As such, the SS is on neither side of the issue and will continue to uphold it's 'nuetral' status.

/RP

It seems as though the hasty Republicans would wish to see our nation in anarchy! poor fools, they know not what they do. Tell me, do you endorse civil disorder as second to none? Wait for the right time, my fellow Apolytons! Wait for the right time...

/RP

	06-10-2002 00:40									#53
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I suprised that you didn't put me up after I have actively spoken for it. I just need two votes to be ambassador from Fanatika to here. I am also a citizen here as well.

	06-10-2002 05:23									#54
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now that you finally made the changes, here is my stance on the issue:

republic is a good thing and i want to have one. HOWEVER (put that sword down uber!) i dont think a republic right now or soon is good. we should keep our wonderful KINGdom until we have established ourselves more, and that isnt going to be for a while. that way we can conquer our neighbors then set up a new government

Last edited by jdd2007 on 06-10-2002 at 06:31

	06-10-2002 05:53									#55
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- I definetely think we should wait for a while (8-10 turns) before we switch to republic, that is, just before the war with america, but also not before we build 'happy buildings' in 2 or 3 problematic cities in which some extra happy faces are neccesary. Right now I don't remember which, but i've made a list with all the happiness effects and a few cities which need a cathedral, or better yet, a marketplace (for 4(!) additional happy faces- after we lay our hands on that persian incense). This feat, IMO, can be accomplished before the imminent annexation of america. (if rushing is permitted).
if it's not possible in the near future (about 8 turns) in any case, i suggest we wait for these conditions to be met less the benefits of the Republic will be reduced by civil disorders.

	06-10-2002 06:18									#56
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I could live with republic under 2 conditions
1)We make more money and science
2)If the people ever grow tired of our "liberation efforts" we will allow suspension of the civilian government in a "new monarchy".
Aggie

	06-10-2002 07:11									#57
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ARENLOS-- "Apparently, UberKruX and History Guy have started early, you can hear them now... "I love you, you love me...." "

Hmmm...the last person who said something similar to this of me ended up with his head swinging from my horses' mane, while on campaign to Persia. Not the smartest thing to say, especially when it has no basis in fact, and when, well, let's face it, the guy whom you are addressing is a hardened warlord with very little patience for whiny little people. (History Guy polishes a very large, and very pointy battleaxe.)

	06-10-2002 07:27									#58
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[(Extremely poor) Roleplay]

As for myself, my stand in this is that, in essence, the Republic is best for the people and the civilization (though I daresay we will have a bit more rioting than we'd appreciate), and I do want to see the best done for the people as can possibly be, as I do believe most assuredly that all men are created equal (and that none of us are evolved from monkeys, as well...).

However, I will take no part in this revolution if it becomes a bloody witchunt with the aim of taking out all of our old, monarchist patriots. Call me antiquarian, but this is hardly the reward for heroism. I don't recall (as a veteran of all the wars of Apolytonia myself) ever seeing the esteemed young would-be-revolutionary Arnelos in those wars myself, in fact, as far as I am concerned, the chap just materialized out of no-where. This is not true of men like Mr. Where Its At, Uberkrux, and Unorthodox, some of Apolytonia's great heroes, and models of the ideals of the everyman. If we try to take down ideals, what are we left with, other than an extremely soggy banana?

If this makes me an 'enemy of the people', than so be it! I do not regard myself as anything but the people's friend, but I don't believe that it would be in the best interests of the people to see the statues of the ideal Apolytonian citizens reduced to dust.

Which reminds me...I really need to get my watch fixed.

[Yeah, that's all the roleplay I gots to give...]

	06-10-2002 15:21									#59
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All in good fun, History Guy

As for myself, of course I'm relatively new... but, then again, I haven't noticed many of the more venerable committed "builder" types even bothering to stand up on this issue or other related ones...

While the Hawks have been beating the war drums non-stop for the past several terms, it is unfortunate that those in favor of peace at most, republic at the very least (and it's easy to warmonger under republic - hell, I'm in favor of it in the long-run) have done little more than occassionally whine...

When UnOrthOdOx has made fun of the DIA for being both (1) behind the times on things it should rightly be pressing and (2) apparently incapable of getting Apolytonia riled up about *its* issues the way the Hawks seem to have done with *their* issues, he's right. The DIA has been rather ineffectual on these issues...

The reason the Hawks are upset at me (and attempting to use my relative newcomer status to discredit me) is that I'm actually attempting to breathe some life and new dynamism into the previously plodding builder argument/movement... They're upset because the Hawks have gotten accustomed (too accustomed...) to having a monopoly on dynamism...

My objective is to make this side less open to the criticism that it's just sitting there and doing very little constructive (just complaining about wars isn't constructive) that's it's been vulnerable to for quite some time... If the Hawks are upset by that, it's only because they've become complacent due to a long string of victories...

So there ya go

	06-10-2002 20:03									#60
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Heck, yes, of course it's all in good fun!