10-10-2002 03:35									#31
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EDIT: misread, I thought they were given the award for work into discovering apoptosis which was done years ago. Damn things.

Yes, well it is important to figure out why cells divide into the patterns they do and how the develop into a fully functional organism with distinct compartmentalisation of tissue of distinct histology. Basically, their work was another step on the way to figuring out how a cell and it's genome divide into the very distinct patterns they do to become an adult human, almost without fail...

Last edited by Provost Harrison on 10-10-2002 at 03:41

	10-10-2002 03:45									#32
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I would like to see something more comprehensive about the awards, that medicine link in the first post is a bit too fluffy for my tastes...

	10-10-2002 12:21									#33
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Nothing on the Nobel site itself?

	10-10-2002 14:16									#34
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Hey, PH, how is the research going? Are you graduating soon?

	10-10-2002 14:17									#35
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http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/2002/press.html

does this help?

	10-10-2002 15:35									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Detection of neutrinos? How long has that been? 30 years?

Not detection of neutrinos. Groundwork required to use neutrinos in antronomy/astrophysics. Detection of neutrinos was awarded nobel prize quite a while ago, IIRC.

	10-10-2002 15:37									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed So, as usual, does any people who actually do stuff know what the **** these are about?

The physics prize is interesting, given that neutrino astronomy still isn't very well established. They're giving the prize to people who laid foundations of a discipline which we're not even sure is useful yet.

	10-10-2002 16:11									#38
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Good lord, I've never heard of Kertész Imre and I'm half-hungarian.

	10-10-2002 16:16									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The physics prize is interesting, given that neutrino astronomy still isn't very well established. They're giving the prize to people who laid foundations of a discipline which we're not even sure is useful yet.

Multiply that by 100 and you have the media.

	10-10-2002 17:03									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The physics prize is interesting, given that neutrino astronomy still isn't very well established. They're giving the prize to people who laid foundations of a discipline which we're not even sure is useful yet.

Well, I think the interesting thing is more that it looks like a political decision. If you had told me that Davis and Koshiba woud get the Prize with a third person, I wouldn't have been surprised but I would have assumed it was for neutrino oscillations and would have wrongly guessed the third guy (there is another japanese guy who would have got it for oscillations).

However, the abstract doesn't mention oscillations at all, and the second half is obviously not connected to oscillations.

It almost looks like the committee wanted to award Davis and Koshiba for their work without admitting that neutrinos oscillate -- just in case there turns out to be some other explanation. It seems a bit weird....

	10-10-2002 17:07									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed Good lord, I've never heard of Kertész Imre and I'm half-hungarian.

Another Jew joins the nobel list.

	10-10-2002 19:29									#42
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Kahneman's work involves trying to integrate psychology and economics. It might help explain how expectations are formed, and in turn explain supposedly irrational behavior, such as investment bubbles. Matthew Rabin (UCal Berkeley) won last year's John Bates Clark Award (best American economist under 40) for similar work.

Vernon Smith's award is well deserved and long overdue. Economists constantly complain that they have to develop theories without being able to do experiments on the economy. Vernon Smith was the first guy to do experiments, usually with respect to individual agents or markets (microeconomics). Some of his earliest work was intended to probe the underlying assumptions of microeconomic theory. In two famous early experiments he found that agents we might expect to be "irrational", namely pigeons and drunks, behave "rationally" by demanding less of something when the price goes up.

His later work involved simulation of market mechanisms. This is particularly useful in deciding whether and how to deregulate industries, since you don't have any data on how the industry will act after the fact. In essence, he would give a bunch of grad students a list of the proposed regulations, tell them they get say one percent of any supposed profits they generate, and then play out a simulation game. Would they collude or not? Would the collusion fall apart or not? Could the regulations be redesigned to prevent problems? Vernon Smith's experiments were used as the basis for auctioning off the spectrum in the US, and could well have been applied to California electricity deregulation if the State Legislature had bothered.

	10-10-2002 19:57									#43
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Pigeons?

	10-10-2002 20:03									#44
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"Vernon Smith's experiments were used as the basis for auctioning off the spectrum in the US"

This process was fascinating--an adult's intellectual playground.

I heard that Malone drove up the prices on the spectrum, never with the intention of actually buying the licenses. What a bastard!

	11-10-2002 07:31									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh Well, I think the interesting thing is more that it looks like a political decision. If you had told me that Davis and Koshiba woud get the Prize with a third person, I wouldn't have been surprised but I would have assumed it was for neutrino oscillations and would have wrongly guessed the third guy (there is another japanese guy who would have got it for oscillations). However, the abstract doesn't mention oscillations at all, and the second half is obviously not connected to oscillations. It almost looks like the committee wanted to award Davis and Koshiba for their work without admitting that neutrinos oscillate -- just in case there turns out to be some other explanation. It seems a bit weird....

I had predicted neutrino oscillations on the first page of this thread, actually.

	11-10-2002 15:06									#46
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Peace Prize:

JIMMY CARTER

	11-10-2002 15:51									#47
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he should have gotten it 20 years ago or so, after the Camp David agreement, but he wasn't nominated back then.

"In a situation currently marked by threats of the use of power, Carter has stood by the principles that conflicts must as far as possible be resolved through mediation and international co-operation based on international law, respect for human rights, and economic development," the announcement said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2319289.stm

Bush must be very happy for him

	11-10-2002 18:25									#48
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Truly amazing what peanut farming can lead to.

I guess it's in order to congratulate him, even though of contemporary American presidents, Ronald Reagan deserved it more for ending the Cold War. But then that went straight over most Europeans' heads.

	11-10-2002 19:06									#50
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quote: Ronald Reagan deserved it more for ending the Cold War

You mean Gorbachev. (Just in case you weren't being funny)

	11-10-2002 19:20									#51
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"You mean Gorbachev."

No, he means Reagan.

Re Carter, this is a proper award. Everything that he has done after his presidency has turned to gold.

However, if the Nobel Cmte was trying to use this as a political message, then they shot wide the mark. Carter isn't considered to have been a good president.

	11-10-2002 19:22									#52
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quote: There was nothing peaceful in the committee's remarks as they related to George Bush. In a thinly veiled rebuke to Mr Bush, the committee said: "In a situation currently marked by threats of the use of power, Carter has stood by the principles that conflicts must as far as possible be resolved through mediation and international cooperation based on international law, respect for human rights, and economic development." Just to make sure that the world got the message, Gunnar Berge, the chairman of the Nobel committee, spelt things out: "It should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken. It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States."

Let the bashing begin...

	11-10-2002 19:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Peace Prize: JIMMY CARTER

Ugh.

I wonder if they could have picked a worse President, present or former.

	11-10-2002 19:30									#54
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"Let the bashing begin..."

It's too easy. At heart, what they are saying will be misinterpreted. At least here in the States. It reinforces Bush's position.

	11-10-2002 19:36									#55
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quote: Just to make sure that the world got the message, Gunnar Berge, the chairman of the Nobel committee, spelt things out: "It should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken. It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States."

I suppose this means that the world can expect Mr. Berge's full support for effective UN action? If not, we can move this discussion over to the integrity thread.

	11-10-2002 20:55									#56
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Ugh. I wonder if they could have picked a worse President, present or former.

Hm.

If my reading is correct, he isn't chosen for being a former US President.

	11-10-2002 21:22									#57
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I think they should start giving out Nobel Humor prizes.

Well, apart from Peace prize for Arafat and what have you.

	11-10-2002 22:08									#58
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"I suppose this means that the world can expect Mr. Berge's full support for effective UN action?"

You see? Misinterpreted.

Edit: Thinking about this some more, it seems unfair to Carter for his long list of accomplishments to be used to bash Bush.

Last edited by DanS on 12-10-2002 at 00:55

	12-10-2002 09:17									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin You mean Gorbachev.

Nope. As DanS said I mean Ronald Reagan. In my book he takes credit for ending the Cold War.

Besides, Mikhail Gorbachev already got the Peace Prize in 1990.

	12-10-2002 15:34									#60
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Ugh. I wonder if they could have picked a worse President, present or former.

Why is Carter seen as a bad President? The only thing I can remember is the desaster in the Iran (this was under Carter, hm?)...What else?