09-10-2002 07:29									#31
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Orange:

Ross Perot got a much higher percentage of the votes because he and his platform were legit. They were actually something people could agree with... Nader with his miniscule popular support shows how weak his ideas are in the minds of the common man.

	09-10-2002 07:30									#32
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quote: Originally posted by orange He didn't run for President to get elected, he did it to get certain issues spoken about (and attempt to get 6% of the vote)

Did he get his deposit back?

	09-10-2002 07:31									#33
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Nader is an authoritarian twit. For all the crap he spew's about civil liberties. He goes on to condemn Gun ownership free-market idea's.

I'm all for gun control too, as are most democrats. Are they authoritarian twits just for that?

This from a guy who supports Bush

	09-10-2002 07:32									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Orange: Ross Perot got a much higher percentage of the votes because he and his platform were legit. They were actually something people could agree with... Nader with his miniscule popular support shows how weak his ideas are in the minds of the common man.

Ross perot = legit platform...



no really

	09-10-2002 07:33									#35
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quote: He didn't run for President to get elected, he did it to get certain issues spoken about (and attempt to get 6% of the vote)

I know, I voted for him (very reluctantly, but I sure as hell wasn't going to vote for Gore). I'm just saying that the Green Party's priorities are screwy and Nader is a big part of this.

Too bad we don't have a Monster Raving Loony Party

	09-10-2002 07:33									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer a sheltered suburban boy in college thinks he knows about the way the world is run... so he agrees with Nader...

As opposed to you, who knows how the world is run?

	09-10-2002 07:34									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko I know, I voted for him (very reluctantly, but I sure as hell wasn't going to vote for Gore). I'm just saying that the Green Party's priorities are screwy and Nader is a big part of this. Too bad we don't have a Monster Raving Loony Party

What do you feel their platform should be about?

Boris - you don't know the half of it. Speer's still trying to get over the shame of being "Most likely to commit a felony" and "Most derranged individual" at high school.

No, I'm not joking.

	09-10-2002 07:39									#38
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quote: What do you feel their platform should be about?

Well that's a whole other issue I'm wierd enough politically that I split my vote between the libertarians and the greens.
Just saying that it would make more sense to put their energy and big-name candidates into local campaigns where they can win and build grass-root support. Nader should go some and run for mayor or something and try to do something productive before wasting the party's efforts on campaigning for protest candidates.

	09-10-2002 07:43									#39
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"I'm all for gun control too, as are most democrats. Are they authoritarian twits just for that?"

If you are against my right to own a gun then yes. If you are against my right to make more money to better myself, then yes. Democrats are authoritarian twits. Gun rights are an extremely important issue when it comes to the consitution, not having to wait in line at the airport or wether or not an FBI guy can roam around on public chatrooms or mosque's looking for Islamic nutjobs.

	09-10-2002 07:44									#40
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i don't think he wants to be confined to a small area...he does you one better...he travels all the time speaking...that's grass roots.

He did 3 speeches that day, 2 the day before, and 2 the next day (flew out to Portland)

Besides, local candidates tend to do better (especially in this case, Houghton attended UD and spent the majority of her life in Wilmington...)

	09-10-2002 07:45									#41
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory "I'm all for gun control too, as are most democrats. Are they authoritarian twits just for that?" If you are against my right to own a gun then yes. If you are against my right to make more money to better myself, then yes. Democrats are authoritarian twits. Gun rights are an extremely important issue when it comes to the consitution, not having to wait in line at the airport or wether or not an FBI guy can roam around on public chatrooms or mosque's looking for Islamic nutjobs.

It is my opinion that you have a very warped view of the world

However, I realize that it is your view that I have a very warped view of the world.

So forget I said anything and we'll call it even.

	09-10-2002 08:01									#42
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Who's sheltered? The guy who's seemingly spent all of his life in philly and discards others' viewpoints? Or the kid who has been all over the country, been to different countries, seen many different types of living situations, and listens to you before he begins to construct a counter attack?

Oh, and I hate gangs just as much as you do. I do not pretend that they do not exist and I understand that life sucks where you live. So sorry. Write a letter to your congressman…

	09-10-2002 08:06									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc PS The Real Ralph Nader

Yup. And if he ever stood a real chance of getting elected, I'd oppose him. Sine that isn't ever going to happen, I can happily use him to thumb my nose at the corporate control government.

	09-10-2002 08:09									#44
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My opinion is warped? Im not the one dreaming of a Socialist Green Utopia where we are all holding hands singing songs around a rainbow am I?

	09-10-2002 08:10									#45
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again, it's not that I'm supportive of him individually, i'm supportive of his message and what he promotes

All lawyers and politicans have some skeletons in the closet. I don't feel his are that bad...a bit hypocritical maybe...but his policies and what he speaks about are what counts in my book.

	09-10-2002 08:11									#46
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory My opinion is warped? Im not the one dreaming of a Socialist Green Utopia where we are all holding hands singing songs around a rainbow am I?

No, yours is one where everyone shoots each other and the government's sole responsibility is to stakeout Mosques looking for people with turbans and funny last names.

I'll take my dream over yours anyday.

	09-10-2002 08:13									#47
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Im not the one dreaming of a Socialist Green Utopia where we are all holding hands singing songs around a rainbow am I?

I have to think you're the only one dreaming of that. Nader's a socialist only in the Bircher-Libertarian misuse of the word that sees any government constraint on corporations as socialism. He believes in well-regulated capitalism. Don't bother pointing to the GPUSA website. First, Nader isn't a member or either Gree Party, and second, the GPUSA isn't the organization that endorsed him. That was the other Green Party.

	09-10-2002 08:16									#48
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his website is democracyrights.org I believe, i could be wrong on that

Edit: www.democracyrising.org

Last edited by orange on 09-10-2002 at 08:21

	09-10-2002 08:16									#49
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Actually the difference here is that you somehow assume I want to get shot walking down the street. I have been walking the streets where there are more legal gun owners on that street than in all of japan. Ive lived to tell about it havent I?

Whats my dream? why do you care? I want to be left alone. Thats my dream. If the world were as politically enlightened as I am we would have no problems.


"government's sole responsibility is to stakeout Mosques looking for people with turbans and funny last names."

Yup. Especially the ones who think shower's, Old spice and english are for infidels.

	09-10-2002 08:21									#50
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my mistake

www.democracyrising.org

Faded - thanks for confirming that you're a racist

	09-10-2002 08:28									#51
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Whats my dream? why do you care? I want to be left alone. Thats my dream.

So if the government, over which you have some democratic control intrudes, this is a horrible intrusion into your freedom and liberty. If a corporation intrudes, that's just life?

If you live among human beings, and I know I do, then intrusion into your life is what happens. It is normal, it is natural, and it's never going away. Given that state of affairs, I would much prefer to have some sort of input and control on that intrusion, then simply get hosed up the wazoo by corporate thugs, theives, and con artists.

	09-10-2002 08:29									#52
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it's ok Che. In Faded's world he'll have a gun, and simply blow everyone away.

	09-10-2002 08:36									#53
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"Faded - thanks for confirming that you're a racist "

Nice troll

A great display of your own wit. Calling me a racist. Wish you could of tried harder to talk, but I know it hurts. You know what they say ; a Challenge that goes unanswered constitutes agreement.

glad you agree

	09-10-2002 10:54									#54
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If I count the obvious opinions of all those that have stated a support for Nader (I need to include myself too), I would say that he gets a quite large percentage of the crowd here.

Nader (4 in favour) - 33,3 %
Bush or anti Nader (8 in favour) - 66,6 %

So in this thread he gains quite many votes after all.

Anyway, I do support Nader as his message and politics are an alternative to the Republicans and Democrats are IMHO still quite much the same compared to all real alternative parties and the opposition outside the Congress or the Senate. BTW, I also agree with orange that they don't just listen and in my opinion that has to do with the fact that the opposition is quite invisible in larger mediums in USA. Also one thing that I find as a pitty is that most intreviews and comments are asked from Republicans and Democrats, while I would like to hear some alternative voices too. Being in the opposition or as a supporter of some alternative and minority party isn't a shame, unlike some only seem to respect the 2 large parties in USA. Tedious...

	09-10-2002 10:56									#55
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Nader would get a lot mor support in a system of proportional representation. However, he acts as a spoiler in a system of voting for the lesser evil so a lot of folks who do support him ended up voting for Gore anyway. Before the election Nader was polling 7%.

	09-10-2002 11:32									#56
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I voted for Nader, if Kansas was neck and neck I probably would have voted Gore (being the pragmatic Commie that I am), but I think Nader is a wonderful individual. He has truly earned the title "The incorruptible Ralph Nader" in my book.
I think it's a great example of how limited our Democracy really is when he was locked out of public debates this past election just because he clashes with the acceptable political dogma in this country. If he were allowed in the debates, he would have wiped the floor with Bush and Gore. He is a very articulate, well-spoken man.

May God bless him and continue to give him the strength to fight the good fight.

	09-10-2002 11:38									#57
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I wonder if my vote for John Hagelin gave the election to Bush...

	09-10-2002 11:41									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Just saying that it would make more sense to put their energy and big-name candidates into local campaigns where they can win and build grass-root support. Nader should go some and run for mayor or something and try to do something productive before wasting the party's efforts on campaigning for protest candidates.

That's a good plan. Choose some place such as NYC or California. Next step will be state governor.

	09-10-2002 18:41									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Just saying that it would make more sense to put their energy and big-name candidates into local campaigns where they can win and build grass-root support. Nader should go some and run for mayor or something and try to do something productive before wasting the party's efforts on campaigning for protest candidates.

The Greens have been doing local campaigns for decades. They are the most successful third party in the US, however, getting above that local level requires more than just running at the local level. Nader's campaigns for the party have raised the visibility of the party, raised the issues of the party, raised the potential of the party. After that last run, the Greens stand a better chance of getting name recognition and doing better both at the tlocal level and at the state level. Unfortunately, they didn't make the 5% threshhold, so they didn't get matching funds. It's not gonna happen next time eithers, since all of Nader's more wishy-washy supports will all vote against Bush for whatever Democrat is running.

	09-10-2002 19:00									#60
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So you've decided to be a one of Nader's Raiders?