13-10-2002 17:22									#31
	Suffering from ads?

Apparently 115 of those in hospital are Australians. I'm getting a really nasty feeling that a similar percentage of the dead are also Aussies.

They were saying on the news that there's a very high probability that the attack was specifically aimed at Australia.

	13-10-2002 17:54									#32
	Suffering from ads?

This is why I didn't watch the news tonight

	13-10-2002 18:09									#33
	Support Apolyton

187 dead so far, and many of the survivors have lost limbs.

	13-10-2002 18:16									#34
	Suffering from ads?

Unless there's some sort of gangland war going on there, it was definitely targeted at Australians if it was at Kuta.

	13-10-2002 19:25									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Horrible weekend for two of the largest non-US groups on Apolyton. My condolences.

	13-10-2002 19:43									#36
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

My wife landed there for the first leg of her holiday 3 hours before the bomb went off. Heard from her this morning though, which was a great relief, and she's about 10 miles away from Kuta.

	13-10-2002 20:36									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

An interesting article from last year:

By IAN MUNRO Saturday 3 November 2001

Mullah Zaeef: Any people when they join with the Americans, they are Americans for us ...

Question: What about Australians in Australia?

Zaeef: Any, any, any person ...

Question: So the jihad could be extended to Australia?

Zaeef: Yes, yes, yes, this is clear, including the Afghan people and if they are joining with Americans in coming to Afghanistan the jihad is clear for any person which wants to accomplish the purpose of the Americans.

In halting, at times barely audible comments to an ABC news crew, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, seemed to conjure for Australians their own round of hijackings and bioterror-ism scares.

Yet the so-called jihad against Australia was nothing more than a declaration that Afghans would defend themselves, the leader of Victoria's Islamic community, Sheik Fehmi El Imam, said yesterday.

Sheik Fehmi said there was no threat to "innocent people in Australia" and the call would be disregarded by local Muslims.

According to Dr Andrew Vincent, of Macquarie University's Centre for Middle Eastern Studies, it was ludicrous to suggest that one of the poorest and most backward places in the world could wage a jihad in Australian territory.

While Muslim leaders and scholars were generally dismissive of the threat of "holy war" being visited upon Australia, Prime Minister John Howard said it was not unexpected and the country's security forces were in a state of heightened alert.

"We can't ignore it, but we should not overreact," he said.

Opposition Leader Kim Beazley said Australia would not be deterred by the threat.

"We should not be intimidated by those sorts of statements, not at all. We have made the right decisions in committing ourselves in this struggle," he said...

	13-10-2002 20:41									#38
	Got spare money?

My thoughts also are with the Australians and other people who have suffered from this terrible, cowardly attack.

	13-10-2002 20:43									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't know of all the popular places where Australians spend their holidays but I would think that Thailand would also be a target as well if this is going to be their method of operation. This type of jihad is going to unite the world eventually, or maybe I should say it will divide it into two camps.

	13-10-2002 21:07									#40
	Suffering from ads?

Could someone change the thread title to show a more significant number?

	13-10-2002 21:47									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

omg it was a huge bombing then.. our news said foreigners were targeted, which was not a surprise.
Condolences to Australian people and all others who are feeling it (for example 2 Swedes).

	14-10-2002 03:52									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Indonesia's reaction will be interesting. It's worth noting that such edifying groups as Jemaat Islamiyah and Laskar Jihad are not illegal in that country.

	14-10-2002 04:15									#43
	Inflate your Upload Space

One remark about the "people" who did this. Everyone seems convinced that it was done by Islamic fanatics but no group has claimed it yet. And this being Indonesia it could well be the Indonesian army that is involved in this (with their record in East Timor and the religious violence in the Moluccans). Destabilizing parts of Indonesia always has been a tactic for them. Maybe they just created their own excuse to crack down on Islamic fundamentilist groups and at the same time endearing the US government to them...

Just a "conspiricy theory" by a Dutch professor on Dutch television that makes a lot of sense when you think about it...

	14-10-2002 04:26									#44
	Suffering from ads?

Aparently 13 Australians have been confirmed dead, and another 220 are missing. While most of the missing will probably turn up alive, this isn't looking good

	14-10-2002 04:28									#45
	Tired of ads?

That's interesting, Hueij, but Megawati is dependant on conservative Islamic support. A crackdown could threaten her control over the country. She's now in Musharraf's position: if she cracks down, many of her own people will declare her the enemy, but if she fails to crack down, the West will declare her the enemy.

	14-10-2002 04:37									#46
	Tired of ads?

The Aussies seem to have it a lot worse than we did .
My thoughts are with them today.

	14-10-2002 04:38									#47
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Mr. President That's interesting, Hueij, but Megawati is dependant on conservative Islamic support. A crackdown could threaten her control over the country. She's now in Musharraf's position: if she cracks down, many of her own people will declare her the enemy, but if she fails to crack down, the West will declare her the enemy.

But that's the whole point. It's not in the interest of the army that Indonesia's president (in this case Megawati) is in a strong position. And think of the American suport the army will get for joining the War on Terrorism. Who do you think is behind the religious violence on the Moluccans? The fanatic Islamics are just pawns in the hands of the army. The last thing they need is a stabilized and democratic Indonesia...

	14-10-2002 04:52									#48
	Put an end to popups!

Seeing as the Indonesian army carefully planed the destruction of East Timor after the 1999 independance vote, I certainly wouldn't put it past them.

However, IMO this is more likely to have been the work of a terrorist group then the Indonesian Army as the Army has an awful lot to lose if they are held responcible for this by Australia and the US.

	14-10-2002 04:55									#49
	Got spare money?

Very sad, at least a 100 Australians dead, more than 200 total. Hundreds injured. Mostly young people, football teams on end of year trips and so forth. The car bomb was timed to go off just as the dance clubs closed and people were milling in the street.

The army is flying out the critical cases by Hercules. 2 planeloads so far, a third on the way.

A reporter said that wounded were so pitiful that no media called out any questions as they were carried right past the international media scrum at Darwin airport.

Its the little things that get you - it was mentioned that one person on the first cas evac plane died. You wonder if they might have survived they could have got to an Australian hospital sooner

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 14-10-2002 at 05:20

	14-10-2002 07:25									#50
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Hueij But that's the whole point. It's not in the interest of the army that Indonesia's president (in this case Megawati) is in a strong position. And think of the American suport the army will get for joining the War on Terrorism. Who do you think is behind the religious violence on the Moluccans? The fanatic Islamics are just pawns in the hands of the army. The last thing they need is a stabilized and democratic Indonesia...

Surely the army recognizes the rising power of Islamic fundamentalism in Indonesia. If they staged this to force the Presifent into taking an unpopular position in the hopes of toppling him, then in what position will they be when they step into power? They will still either have to yield either to the West or the fundamentalists.

	14-10-2002 07:41									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

More than 220 Australians are unaccounted for. What if it was a deliberate strike at Australia in retribution for East Timor? It may not have been by the military (Laskar Jihad is still livid over John Howard's intervention in East Timor) but there is a lot of bad feeling in Indonesia over that affair.

	14-10-2002 07:46									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

**** Indonesia. Australia did the right thing in East Timor. Stopping people from brutalizing folks who want independence is a good thing, and only a rotten bunch of cunts would take it out on y'all.

This really pisses me off. It's mostly young people who got killed also.

	14-10-2002 07:59									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

That may be so, but in their eyes we caused the dissolution of a recognized country, something we opposed in Northern Ireland and Israel. That doesn't make blasting a nightclub with incendiary explosives right, of course; nonetheless I have it on good authority that many people in Indonesia spoke of "getting back at Australia, in some way" just after the East Timor affair.

	14-10-2002 12:01									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

My friend is in Bali at the moment. The insurance companies wont give him the money to fly back because they took out the cover post Sept. 11. Also, 312 Kiwis are missing in Bali.

	14-10-2002 12:12									#55
	Remove this text

The folks in Indonesia's government and/or military had better not have done this because of East Timor.

Gatekeeper

	14-10-2002 12:23									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

New Zealand had a part in East Timor, and a LOT of Kiwis were in the incident. 312, not many less than the Aussies.

	14-10-2002 17:36									#57
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Apparantly a number of the people who where caught in the blast were members of Rugby teams who had gone to Bali for an International competition. There are seven members of the Singapore Cricket Club team who are still missing and thought to have been in the blast area.