23-10-2002 04:16									#31
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Just finished this game.

Won by domination in 1940 or something. Was one of the more entertaining games I've played. I would have won sooner but my assault on the French hit a speedbump: I had taken 2 cities when they suddenly got gunpowder. And thus their GA was triggered. I managed to take 2-3 more cities but eventually my offensive of knights ground to a halt by their musketeers and I had to wait for cavs. I should have attacked 5 or so turns earlier. oh well. I learned my lesson when attacking the Germans, caught them a tech before they could get panzers and their GA. Hahaha.

This was one of the few games where I had a large navy: around 40 ironclads and 15 destroyers and 15 transports around the middel of the game.

Thansk for the game Olaf, was enjoyable. And the start would be hard not to win from.

One interesting thing: After the Romans and Chinese were left one city (landlocked in jungle :lol The greeks marched on me. I couldnt' attack them as well as I would have liked, so the hoplites marched around my territory aiming for all iron deposits, pillaging then moving to the next. They knew they couldnt' take my pikes and I couldnt take the hoppies. Interesting. Then I got knights and that was that.

	24-10-2002 15:18									#32
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Just finished this game. Won by domination in 1940 or something. Was one of the more entertaining games I've played. I would have won sooner but my assault on the French hit a speedbump: I had taken 2 cities when they suddenly got gunpowder. And thus their GA was triggered. I managed to take 2-3 more cities but eventually my offensive of knights ground to a halt by their musketeers and I had to wait for cavs. I should have attacked 5 or so turns earlier. oh well. I learned my lesson when attacking the Germans, caught them a tech before they could get panzers and their GA. Hahaha. This was one of the few games where I had a large navy: around 40 ironclads and 15 destroyers and 15 transports around the middel of the game. Thansk for the game Olaf, was enjoyable. And the start would be hard not to win from. One interesting thing: After the Romans and Chinese were left one city (landlocked in jungle :lol The greeks marched on me. I couldnt' attack them as well as I would have liked, so the hoplites marched around my territory aiming for all iron deposits, pillaging then moving to the next. They knew they couldnt' take my pikes and I couldnt take the hoppies. Interesting. Then I got knights and that was that.

Nice to hear that someone else liked this map. I liked it too.

You should had put pikemen on top of your iron to stop Alex.

	24-10-2002 17:24									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Wizard, You also have to bear in mind that the game just moves faster on the higher levels, because of the AI's increased science rate. So when the human catches up (via the Great Library and/or beating tech out of the enemy, err... AI), you're way ahead of where you would have been on say... Regent. Therefore, Bombers and Infantry in 1805 isn't really that big a deal. -Arrian

On a good enough map (and this definitely qualifies), a sufficiently skilled human player can match the AI tech pace even on Emperor. I gave my continent a huge tech advantage by beelining for Monarchy the moment I'd discovered Pottery (my goal being to hold off my GA until I could have a non-despotic government). Also note that since Egypt started with ceremonial burial, I had a nice head start. The strategy worked like a charm, and I lucked out to the extent that Rome was still in the process of hooking up its iron when I attacked. Say bye bye!

I traded Monarchy to catch up in other techs the AIs had and I didn't, and I haven't looked back since. A golden age spent building libraries and marketplaces saw to that (albeit leaving me without enough military superiority to want to take on China - especially since I goofed and let them build the Great Wall to trigger their own GA). By the time I completed the Great Library, it was obvious that the only new knowledge that would be finding its way there would be my own. By the way, thanks to GA-inspired research, my detour through Monarchy didn't seriously delay my transition to Republic, so I've had that going for me to boost my research pace as well.

Nathan

	24-10-2002 22:02									#34
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If I remember right, I was in tech lead even before I went to the first war. I was definitely in score lead. After that I had expelled the strongest AI Greece from my continent, I was at least 5 techs up (see picture). My top tech is not visible, but I think it was military tradition.

Nathan, it shouldn't be so hard to build up a strong military, considering the low cost of war chariots. Don't wait until China get riders!

Attachment: stubborn.jpg
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	24-10-2002 23:57									#35
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Nathan,

I've outresearched the AI on Emperor (granted, on a map I designed to be sorta like AU106, but was nicer), so I know it can be done. But you DO start in a hole, and I've found that by far the most effective method to catch up is oscillating war + the GL if you can get it. One can also trade yourself to parity and if you get a break you can beat the AI down the Monarchy path like you said. Then again, beware if there are a couple of Expansionists around - those guys will get all sorts of tech out of huts.

A lot of it depends on your neighbors and how much trading they can do. If you have a bunch of religious civs, they will all have ceremonial burial, leaving only 1 unique tech each for them to trade around. If you have a more diverse group, it's not unusual to discover you are 4+ techs back at first contact.

-Arrian

	25-10-2002 00:06									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre Nathan, it shouldn't be so hard to build up a strong military, considering the low cost of war chariots. Don't wait until China get riders!

I might have gone to war with China before now, but some guy named Leonardo kept insisting that if I just gave him a little time, he could find a way to turn my thirty-someodd veteran war chariots and eleven veteran horsemen into something a whole lot more powerful at a reasonable cost. It turns out he knew what he was talking about, and I just did my first eight upgrades. At the moment, my income can support eight more upgrades per turn (at zero research), but that could go up as more banks get finished. (It's those banks, most of which were started as universities and switched over, that put the latest hold on further war chariot and horseman production.)

China and Greece just got Feudalism within the last five turns or so, and with how long they took for it, I don't know whether they could get Chivalry in time for me to see any riders even if one of them makes it their next research priority. In any case, I'm not too worried. (Yes, I'm that far ahead: I have Banking, Invention, and Chivalry while my top competition just has Monotheism and Feudalism. And a few turns ago, back in 290 AD, I was fortunate enough to see a list of the world's most advanced nations. France was listed as the most advanced not on my continent in spite of not having Monarchy, Currency, or Code of Laws yet.)

By the way, in case anyone wonders why I built horsemen, if a city produces 15-19 shields, it can build a horseman as quickly as it can a war chariot. Horsemen are cheaper to upgrade to knights and can travel on types of terrain that war chariots can't.

Nathan

	25-10-2002 00:25									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian A lot of it depends on your neighbors and how much trading they can do. If you have a bunch of religious civs, they will all have ceremonial burial, leaving only 1 unique tech each for them to trade around. If you have a more diverse group, it's not unusual to discover you are 4+ techs back at first contact.

I agree that it's easy to be way behind at first contact. But in the long term (and assuming you can stay at peace), it's depth into the tech tree that counts, not breadth. Get a tech lead down a particular path and you can go back and trade for the older techs you missed. (Although I do almost always make Pottery research priority one because it can be so valuable for REXing.)

On maps where it can be done (and such maps aren't especially common), that has the advantage of making you a leader instead of perpetually behind. Indeed, in this game (with its truly exceptional starting position), I was pulling away before I even started work on the Great Library.

Nathan

	25-10-2002 01:59									#38
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Arrian, that is a good trick to slow them down, civs with the same starting techs. You could also turn off barbs and forgo the huts. I never tried it but, I would think that would mean no techs from huts and a longer research time and hence trading techs less. This would impact the size and timing of the hole you are in to start, as the AI will do all the tech swaps and get you behind for awhile (I think).

Last edited by vmxa1 on 25-10-2002 at 05:07

	25-10-2002 02:51									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It slows tech research and kills expansionist civs

	25-10-2002 05:09									#40
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yep americans are my second favourite civ right after the egyptians
if i play on huge maps i usually pick the americans
they also have the advantage of not getting their GA too early
unlike the egyptians with their war chariots (if i play as a warmonger) and/or pyramids (if i play as a builder)
and there's nothing i hate more than a GA under despotism without a FP in place

arrian: so far i have read that you usually play as a builder
when you finished your first really successful game on emperor, did you also fight alot?

i played my first really successful game on emperor with the americans, i fought until the middle of medieval, while still building up my core cities with improvements, conquering the egypts, iroquis, japanese, and indians
in the former iroquis/japanese mainland i rushed a FP with a leader and built huge productive cities, too.
then i was way behind in techs but i quickly regained the techlead when i got a GA with some wonder and started research on my own and disbanded most of my military in order to become a peaceniker
when i was at the end of industrail times, i was by far the best civ on the world and since my computer got too slow and the game got too boring i restarted

one comment on those war chariots: i once had a really lucky game when i conquered the greeks with some 30 war chariots and hardly any casualties on my side
unfortunately that luck turned around when i had knights and i hardly won a single fight until i got cavalry

	26-10-2002 02:26									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

Arrian,
Where is your save game? Not that I need it, now that I will soon go abroad, but sooner or later I would like to play it. Good starts is my idea of winning CIV3.

On war chariots: I overrun the Chinese with 45 war chariots in this game, before feudalism and chivalry. Their Great Wall and my despotic golden age did not help them.

	26-10-2002 02:37									#42
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quote: arrian: so far i have read that you usually play as a builder when you finished your first really successful game on emperor, did you also fight alot?

Hmm, perhaps you have read some older posts by me... I USED to be a "builder." I put it in quotes because it implies "peaceful" to an extent, and I'm a looooong way from peaceful now. I still build like crazy, it's just that I've found that the best way to build what I want is to beat the snot out of the AI. So yeah, I fought a lot on Emperor (victory #2 is coming up... this time as Japan. Not nearly as dominating as the Egypt game, but solid).

Olaf,

I will try to remember to post the save for you when I get home tonight (in about 1/2 hour). I have a million things I need to remember, so I apologize in advance if I forget.

-Arrian

	26-10-2002 03:20									#43
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Ok, Olaf, here is the 4000bc save. IIRC, I actually settled one tile to the NE ("9" on the keyboard).

Attachment: egypt emperor 4000bc.sav
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	26-10-2002 03:23									#44
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And, though you shouldn't look at it unti you have played for a while, here is the last save prior to victory (probably some time before I actually won)...

Attachment: egypt emperor iv.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	27-10-2002 04:35									#45
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*Bump*

Arrian: Thanks for the map. I will play it after I finished my current game.

	31-10-2002 05:19									#46
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*BUMP*
Hey dudes, I'm sure that a lots of you played this map as 20 something downloaded it. Where are your AA reports/savegames/screenshots?